BioMed Central Breached Its Policies By Deleting Brian Hooker’s Study

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By Jake Crosby

Below is the excuse the publisher BioMed Central gave for deleting Dr. Brian Hooker’s study from the medical journal Translational Neurodegeneration:

takedown
But whatever “possible undeclared competing interests” may have been outstanding, they clearly did not warrant taking down the article according to BioMed Central’s own policy for removing articles below. In particular, note the section boxed in red and how it clearly does not apply to Dr. Hooker’s paper at all:
 biomedcentralremoval

There is nothing “unlawful” about “possible undeclared competing interests,” and the excuse for removing Dr. Hooker’s study makes no mention of “threatened legal claims.” BioMed Central breached its own “Permanency of articles” policy by deleting his study, amounting to scientific censorship and casting serious doubt on the objectivity of the publisher’s ongoing investigation of the paper. Moreover, the statement from the CDC whistleblower who coauthored the original study Dr. Hooker reanalyzed the data from lends credence to the validity of his conclusions.

Expanding on these concerns, I wrote the following in email to BioMed Central with the subject title, “Pulling Dr. Hooker’s paper violates your policies”:

Dear BioMed Central,

I am an epidemiologist, graduate student and editor of an autism news website. I am writing because I understand you have removed an article from one of your journals titled “Measles-mumps-rubella vaccination timing and autism among young african american boys: a reanalysis of CDC data,” by Dr. Brian Hooker out of concern for the validity of its conclusions because of “possible undeclared competing interests of the author and peer reviewers.” I should say I know Dr. Hooker personally and consider him a colleague and friend, though I am making this inquiry entirely on my own behalf and not on his or anybody else’s.

I have three questions for you concerning your take-down of his paper:

1.) What possible competing interests are there among the author and peer reviewers that have not already been declared and are so serious that they would warrant the deletion of Dr. Hooker’s paper?

2.) Shouldn’t the below admission from a coauthor of the original CDC study from which Dr. Hooker reanalyzed the data be an encouraging indication of his paper’s validity?

“I regret my co-authors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data was collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.”

http://www.morganverkamp.com/august-27-2014-press-release-statement-of-william-w-thompson-ph-d-regarding-the-2004-article-examining-the-possibility-of-a-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

3.) According to BioMed Central’s “Permanency of articles” policy, even articles that are retracted remain in the public domain: “…the original article remains in the public domain and the subsequent correction or retraction will be widely indexed.”

This paper is not even retracted, despite an erroneous report from TIME Magazine. Yet Dr. Hooker’s paper has already been removed against your publisher’s policy which states:

“The preservation of scientific research is a cornerstone of science and as such we will use our best efforts to ensure that material published by BioMed Central is preserved and remains available for access.”

This is further backed up by the following statement, which very specifically lays out what reasons would justify the deletion of material from the public domain:

“However in the exceptional event that material is considered to infringe certain rights or is defamatory we may have no option but to remove that material from our site and those sites on which we have deposited the material in question.

BioMed Central therefore reserves the right to cease to make available articles that it has been advised are potentially defamatory or that infringe any intellectual property right, or are otherwise unlawful.”

Clearly, the questions about paper’s validity and any subsequent “public interest” did not warrant its deletion. There was nothing potentially defamatory, copyright-infringing or otherwise unlawful about Dr. Hooker’s paper. Regardless of whether non-declaration of possible competing interests by the author or peer reviewers is true, there is nothing that would be “unlawful” about it.

BioMed Central clearly lays out how it handles the removal of such material:

“Where this occurs the article will remain indexed. However in place of the article or header the following will appear:

“BioMed Central regrets that this article is no longer available to avoid threatened legal claims”.”

http://www.biomedcentral.com/about/permanency

This does not apply to Dr. Hooker’s paper at all, and no such statement was made in place of his paper. It is therefore clear that you pulled his paper in breach of your own stated policies.

How can readers trust the objectivity of any subsequent editorial investigation since your reason for pulling the paper is contradicted by your own permanency policy in the first place? That reason hypocritically calls into question the objectivity of the author and peer reviewers, yet your investigation is not being conducted in an objective manner.

Sincerely,

Jake Crosby, MPH
Editor, Autism Investigated
www.autisminvestigated.com

BioMed Central sent me this reply:

Dear Jake,

Thank you for your message. We are not providing further comment until the investigation is concluded.
I will keep your email and let you know when that is.

Best wishes,

Anna

Anna Perman
Media Officer

I then responded:

Dear Anna,

Will you at least explain why his paper should stay down when deleting it in the first place clearly goes against your permanency policy?

Jake

Receiving an automatic reply, I sent a similar email to another BioMed Central employee only to receive an automatic reply from that person as well. As the study remains deleted, the publisher’s subsequent “investigation” of it is clearly anything but objective.

BioMed Central should abide by its own policies, and restore Dr. Hooker’s study to the public domain of Translational Neurodegeneration immediately.

Jake Crosby is editor of Autism Investigated. He is a 2011 graduate of Brandeis University with a Bachelor of Arts in both History and Health: Science, Society and Policy and a 2013 graduate of The George Washington University School of Public Health and Health Services with a Master of Public Health in Epidemiology. He currently attends the University of Texas School of Public Health where he is studying for a Ph.D. in Epidemiology.

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143 Thoughts on “BioMed Central Breached Its Policies By Deleting Brian Hooker’s Study

  1. They’re circling the wagons.

  2. @Jake – if it is found that there were serious undeclared conflicts of interest, that the peer-reviewers weren’t objective & unbiased and that the study results weren’t accurate, why would you want the paper up anyway?

    Isn’t that bad science? (like what you’ve constantly complained about in the past)

    • According to the publisher’s own policies, they should want the paper up regardless of whatever “possible undeclared interests” that are found (although Dr. Hooker disclosed his role in vaccine/biologic litigation, which he has always been open about). That it was taken down before these issues were determined to be true or not raises serious questions about the objectivity of the publisher.

      Given that the whistleblower who coauthored the original study backed up the results Dr. Hooker found, it would appear his paper was the opposite of “bad science.”

  3. Robbie on August 31, 2014 at 8:50 am said:

    No, what you are saying is crazy. Biomedical publishers can put up and take down anything they like, for whatever reason they like. Nothing you have quoted says anything contrary. Same with any publisher.

    Brian Hooker’s underlying problem, now that Wakefield had caused this paper to receive forensic scrutiny, is that his mission was to try to find fault with MMR, and said so. He has been quite clear about that for a decade. Focus Autism, which sponsored him, has also stated a position inconsistent with objective inquiry. He has no possibility of being taken to be a dispassionate scientist looking for answers.

    As with Wakefield before him, he had made up his mind before researching. Thus, his paper will now be exposed to examination at a level that you would rarely see anywhere, much less in a fringe journal that nobody reads.

    The more interesting question is whether CDC did the same. Start with an assumption and then ensure the published results fitted. The jury is still out on that, and likely will be for some time.

    • “Biomedical publishers can put up and take down anything they like, for whatever reason they like.”

      Then why don’t they just make that their policy – “we reserve the right to put up and take down anything we like, for whatever reason we like”? That seems awfully contrary to BioMed Central’s policy for removal of papers.

      What Wakefield did was wrong, but it was wholly separate from the analysis and write-up of Dr. Hooker’s paper. It’s total projection to say he “made up his mind before researching,” when he was merely looking for an association a previous team of researchers found but omitted from publication before making conclusions contrary to those results. You conveniently leave out that while he’s been campaigning for safety for over a decade, he witnessed his son react to vaccination over a decade ago. It’s ridiculous to dismiss him based on his connection to Focus Autism – funding from which is acknowledged in his paper btw – when the CDC promotes vaccination ahead of safety and belongs to a government department that assumes all liability for vaccine injuries.

    • No, what you are saying is crazy. Biomedical publishers can put up and take down anything they like, for whatever reason they like. Nothing you have quoted says anything contrary. Same with any publisher.

      This is well into the territory of Not Even Wrong. Set aside TN for a moment and consider a non-OA journal, for which there’s going to be a copyright transfer agreement. This obviously doesn’t work as a contract if the thing can simply go *poof* without any warning.

    • Ellen Mary on September 8, 2014 at 3:47 am said:

      Hmm, making up your mind before researching, that DOES sound bad. Like if you threw out results because you had already decided that autism originates in the womb, say . . .

  4. Sam Hall on August 31, 2014 at 12:01 pm said:

    @ Larry/Lawrence. Nogood,

    You must bee feeling awful threatened right now to be spending so much time over here. I would like to reiterate that you are not welcome.

    We are doing all the right things clearly otherwise you would be across with your pals LIElady et al. Dr.Hookers work which was independent of all of the discrete (but strangely joined up) groups of the autism community is the biggest threat of all. He is the one who got through the net. He is operating outside the controlled opposition and infiltrator led organisations………..good heavens if he managed to create a following he could be dangerous ??

    • Lawrence on August 31, 2014 at 4:17 pm said:

      @Sam – then please complain to the blog owner. He has stated that he will not permit AoA-type draconian moderation here.

      As to Hooker, his COI include an on-going lawsuit predicated on a link between vaccines and autism and membership in an organization dedicated to proving such a link exists.

      For some reason, you seem to believe COIs only exist when it is convenient. Even Jake knows this isn’t true.

      • Dr. Hooker has always been forthcoming about his role in litigation, and funding from Focus Autism is acknowledged in his paper.

        If you dismiss Dr. Hooker, you must also dismiss CDC since it promotes routine vaccination ahead of safety and belongs to the DHHS which assumes all liability for vaccine injuries.

  5. @Jake – the study was not “deleted” as the journal merely made it unavailable while an investigation into the validity of the results & possible COIs with the author / peer-reviewers are identified.

    Again, this is good behavior on the journal’s part – as it would be bad for them to have an incorrect or “bad” paper published by them.

    • The article was deleted, Larry. Even retracted articles remain in the public domain on the site. Dr. Hooker’s paper has not been retracted or even corrected, yet it cannot be found anywhere on the site.

  6. @ Larry/Lawrence. Nogood,

    Sam, I haven’t even commented on this entry, so perhaps you skip the childish insults until I do.

  7. Anyway, what I stopped by for in the first place was to say that I think Jake has a solid point here and to suggest commenting on the RW entry or, given that I’m guessing that they’re going to be following it up, tweeting or E-mailing Ivan.

    • “The Scholarly Kitchen” might also be interested, but given that this is ultimately Springer OA, and their OA hostility is greatly tempered when it comes to for-profit publishers being able to co-opt things, there’s no telling what might fall out. Retraction Watch commands a great deal more respect in any event.

      • I tweeted about this to a number of people, including him, though I think I may follow up with an email or a comment. If nothing else, more people need to know about it – glad we agree.

    • I posted a comment, but it altered in a way that misrepresented what I said:

      “How come no one is reporting that I believe BioMed Central’s take-down of Dr. Hooker’s article is a violation of the publisher’s own policies on article removal?”

      This is what I really said:

      “How come no one is reporting that BioMed Central’s take-down of Dr. Hooker’s article is clearly a violation of the publisher’s own policies on article removal, which states such action is only done under the explicit avoidance of threatened legal claims”
      http://retractionwatch.com/2014/08/27/journal-takes-down-autism-vaccine-paper-pending-investigation/?replytocom=135306#comment-135232

      I don’t want anyone to report what “I believe,” I want journalists to report what actually happened; the publisher’s policies in relation to the article removal speak for themselves.

      • I posted a comment, but it altered in a way that misrepresented what I said

        Yah, this happens. It took me some time to get to get a feel for the ropes, and I’m still only batting around .850. It’s subjective.

        I’m relieved that it’s a clumsy edit, though, because when I saw the RW version, my first thought was “I can’t believe he lead off with that“; it sounds somewhat unhinged.

        • I know.

          “…it sounds somewhat unhinged.” – I think that was the moderator’s intent…

          • I think that was the moderator’s intent…

            I’m more inclined to think that it was just a sloppy result of a policy that may not have been fully thought through. I can, however, think of ways that the original could have been rephrased to avoid the problem (assuming <s> tags work):

            “How come no one is reporting It appears to me that BioMed Central’s take-down of Dr. Hooker’s article is clearly a violation….”

            But this is an exercise in mind-reading.

            • I see that <s> tags don’t work. The imaginary rephrasing should read “It appears to me that BioMed Central’s take-down of Dr. Hooker’s article is a violation….”

  8. Media Scholar on August 31, 2014 at 9:29 pm said:

    So this reason for pulling another paper which indicates CDC MMR research fraud from publication is mutating….again?

    Please review previous attempts (w/ notes added to this post):

    “This article has been removed from the public domain pending further investigation because the journal and publisher believe that its continued availability could cause public harm. Definitive editorial action will be taken once our investigation is complete.” (NOTE: It is comical to go over the top to pull a paper due to unfavorable conclusions. Only a zoid from a drug company PAC would be all chillin’ with a Mcfisto Manifesto. That’s like a large, foreign-owned drug company canceling their own clinical trail and ordering “NO PRESS” when results staring crystallizing. )

    TO THIS:

    “This article has been removed from the public domain because of serious concerns about the validity of its conclusions. The journal and publisher believe that its continued availability may not be in the public interest. Definitive editorial action will be pending further investigation.” (NOTE: It is comical to go over the top to pull a paper due to unfavorable conclusions. Only a zoid from a drug company PAC would be all chillin’ with a Mcfisto Manifesto. That’s like a large, foreign-owned drug company canceling their own clinical trail and ordering “NO PRESS” when results staring crystallizing. )

    In fact, any and all future incantations of conjuring up excuses for banning Brian Hooker’s excellent paper proving US CDC MMR research fraud will receive the auto-respond:

    (NOTE: It is comical to go over the top to pull a paper due to unfavorable conclusions. Only a zoid from a drug company PAC would be all chillin’ with a Mcfisto Manifesto. That’s like a large, foreign-owned drug company canceling their own clinical trail and ordering “NO PRESS” when results staring crystallizing. )

    Calling on TIME or any other media bedfellow to carry water for the foreign-owned vaccine-manufacturing drug giants is indicative of the so called ‘war on germs’. We all know that negative neurological outcomes as a result of vaccination(s) is the vaccine-manufacturing drug giant’s version of the Vietnam War. They will never win.

    What TIME and the others fail to understand is nobody in American is stupid enough to believe this crap any more. Scamdemic after scamdemic after scamdemic have had more to do with the present massive amounts of public distrust of foreign-owned vaccine-manufacturing drug giants than a bunch of American moms and dads seeking compensation from a “no-fault” vaccine injury “trust”.

    Vaccine industry carpet-bombing is vaccine industry carpet-bombing. The media has a huge conflicts of interests. They sell vaccines and drugs.

    • TIME wrongly reports Dr. Hooker’s paper has been “retracted” while never bothering to check if the deletion of his paper was in line with the policies of this so-called open access publisher. It’s not journalism, it’s just PR stamped with the TIME logo that masquerades as journalism. Meanwhile, actual journalists cannot cover this issue without jeopardizing their careers. That magazine should not benefit from any protections of a free press and should be fully investigated for its role in the cover-up by Congress.

  9. The Reverend on September 1, 2014 at 12:42 am said:

    I’m not too worried. I’m sure Jake will agree that the math and science in this paper speak for themselves. I would suspect that Jake has already checked the paper, and found it to meet his standards for accuracy and adhearance to the scientific method.

    Like life, the truth always finds a way to bust out. If the science is solid, nothing will be able to stop it, and the science is solid, isn’t it?

    • Yes, but that was never even the real issue. The issue was “possible undeclared competing interests of the author and peer reviewers,” even though the author has disclosed his involvement in litigation and acknowledged receipt of funding from Focus Autism. I have no idea what interests the peer reviewers might possess since Translational Neurodegeneration operates on a closed system. The whistleblower coming forward and vouching for the relationship found in Dr. Hooker’s paper should have put any concerns about its objectivity to rest.

    • I’m not too worried. I’m sure Jake will agree that the math and science in this paper speak for themselves.

      I’m afraid that without descriptive statistics, this is impossible for a reader to assess (which I think Jake might agree with). It has nothing to do with BMC’s very strange behavior, though.

      • Since it’s the same data and population, you could always go by the descriptive statistics from the original study. Regardless, we both agree BioMed Central has no good excuse to do what it did.

        • Since it’s the same data and population, you could always go by the descriptive statistics from the original study.

          If DeStefano et al. were sufficient to allow one to verify Hooker’s calculations, he wouldn’t have needed the restricted-use data set in the first place.

          • The reason he needed it was to find the relationship that DeStefano et al. found but omitted from publication.

            • The reason he needed it was to find the relationship that DeStefano et al. found but omitted from publication.

              This is why I pointed out the absence of descriptive statistics in Hooker’s paper in the first place. There’s no way to calculate ORs, for example.

              You must be aware of the substantive methodological criticisms that have been levied against the paper. I understand that your attention has been on the increasingly weird background story (I’m sure you’ve seen AoA’s “screen shot” by now), but you’re also in an excellent position to address those criticisms. I think everyone would be interested in your take on them.

              • And, what’s the deal with Table 4, for which he reverts to the birth-certificate sample? Why didn’t he redo it from scratch, censoring the data points for the “unknown”–race cases and controls from the total sample?

                • I realized while I was at the grocery store that I was conflating Tables 3 and 4. I hope I have it straight this time:

                  The question of censoring the data without race information goes to figuring out exactly what Table 3 is reporting. The separate question of reverting to the birth-certificate sample is about why Table 4 is there to start with.

                  • Table 3 was simply reporting the risk in children other than African-American children.

                    In Table 4, the birth certificate sample was apparently reverted to because of the high proportion of low birth weight children in that sample which could have biased the results.

  10. Bayareamom on September 1, 2014 at 2:43 am said:

    “The whistleblower coming forward and vouching for the relationship found in Dr. Hooker’s paper should have put any concerns about its objectivity to rest.”

    Why hasn’t he?

  11. Media Scholar on September 1, 2014 at 4:24 am said:

    The issue was “possible undeclared competing interests of the author and peer reviewers,” even though the author has disclosed his involvement in litigation and acknowledged receipt of funding from Focus Autism.
    ——————-
    So the final answer has mutated three times?

    It’s clear that unfair and inappropriate pressure is being applied. The same bogus “greater good” whitewash is being applied yet again.

    The fact that TIME has agreed to ignore this story failing to educate the public to what US CDC MMR research fraud is, and trust in the ability of the vaccine industry plumber to fix the leak so they can go back to sleep simply means that TIME is incapable of serving the public interest.

  12. Bayareamom on September 1, 2014 at 4:34 am said:

    I admire your work on this issue, Jake. Hopefully, more of Dr. Thompson’s fellow scientists will perhaps grow a conscience as well and put forth their own knowledge about this issue (and other research as well).

    What I was asking, in my above statement, was whether or not Dr. Thompson would make mention – directly so – as to this retraction.

    What a mess this all is.

  13. White Rose on September 1, 2014 at 8:49 am said:

    I also have a COI (as do many parents here) . i have a beautiful baby maimed by the CDC & their lies .
    Why are you allowed to post on AoA Larry . And many parents of the vaccine maimed are not ?

  14. White Rose on September 1, 2014 at 12:06 pm said:

    These whistle blowers are only coming fwd now because of the fear of this criminality all coming out and being pinned on them individually .

    The fact they are diving for cover means our parent led pressure is working .
    Dont expect any of them to start singing like a canary though .
    They will only do enough to attempt to clear their own names should the full story come out , in the pathetic attempt to demonstrate they tried to do the right thing (no matter how lame their attempt.)

    This guy had this information for 10/14 years .He is fully aware vaccines cause autism .

  15. Sam Hall on September 1, 2014 at 7:59 pm said:

    @White rose

    I think you are right. The parents are moving way beyond looking for compensation. We are looking for convictions and criminal charges for those who were part of the cover up. People like Colleen Boyle, Thomson, DeStafeno must be terrified as when the government are handing them over as the crooks who concealed evidence there will be no protection. They will be the fall guys and they must be wondering how to get themselves out of this mess ……………the pressure is on.

  16. @Sam – another example of anti-vax delusion.

    Who exactly is going to sit on these “vaccine tribunals” that you are so anxious to convene? Got any “Sovereign Citizens” to add to the mix as well?

  17. Media Scholar on September 2, 2014 at 1:09 am said:

    Who exactly is going to sit on these “vaccine tribunals” that you are so anxious to convene? Got any “Sovereign Citizens” to add to the mix as well?
    —————-
    Wut?

  18. White Rose on September 2, 2014 at 7:52 am said:

    Larry – you might even be putting urself in the frame !

  19. White Rose on September 2, 2014 at 9:22 am said:

    I count 11 meaningful articles over at AoA in a row . Do you think they are listening to the criticism ?
    Assuming they are – We also would like you to conduct a full investigation into Mark Blaxills conduct to do with everything autism – and anyone else there who might be trying to subvert the cause .

    And although I dont know much about her –
    I am going to take a shot in the dark here and say I want Anne Dachel to be put fully in charge of all editorial decisions at AoA . For a long time she seems to be the only one who has anything like a backbone over there .
    also all cooperation with Orac or anyone even remotely like Orac must completely cease .

    anyone else got anymore demands of AoA ?

  20. @WhiteRose – something tells me that I (or others) don’t have anything to worry about…..

    Don Quixiote called, he wants his windmills back…..

  21. White Rose on September 2, 2014 at 11:30 am said:

    Larry : this is no delusion buddy . This is very much reality .

    Everyone who attended SimpsonWood is going to prison for the rest of their lives .
    And many more besides .

  22. I think you owe Dr. Wakefield a heartfelt apology. I am sure he will accept it he after all forgave one of the many who tried to destroy him.

    • I think you’ve commented on the wrong post, Nora.

      Anyway, I think Dr. Wakefield owes me a heartfelt apology. After years of supporting him, he lied to me about something as important as the release of the whistleblower’s identity.

      Dr. Wakefield deserves to be shamed.

      • There’s not a parent on this forum who gives a rats ass about this whisleblower, or how his identity was released.

        The real story here, is that thousands of CHILDREN have been poisoned by the MMR vaccine. And it all transpired while scientists like this one, who actually knew about the risk over 10 years ago, did NOTHING to protect all those innocent children. This person knew that children ( …both black AND white!!) were at risk of being harmed by the MMR vaccine, and he kept that information to himself.

        Do you think that any of HIS relatives received an MMR vaccine in those 10 years Jake???

        The only ones who deserve an apology here, are the children that he chose NOT to protect.

  23. White Rose on September 2, 2014 at 9:54 pm said:

    So here is a suggestion (just a discussion point – Larry – tell me what you think ?)

    But I am just wondering if I could execute a trade right now putting on a big “short” trade of a basket of vaccination manufacturers . Merck,Gsk,Sanofi,Baxter etc

    Even if their ridiculous liability protection were to hold up (which I don’t think it could under such huge public pressure) , that all their future vaccine royalties are in serious jeopardy .

    This story is NEVER going to go away Larry . Poul Thoresen was one thing , but this is quite another , and the media can only censor this for so long (the dam might break at anytime.)

    Out of interest Larry – how much is BillyG paying you to be here?

  24. Larry is paid to divert/distract/ a simple conversation. That, or Larry works in the medical field. AKA useful tool. Which is it, Lar??

  25. That you can’t accept that a rational person would be able to look at the body of evidence & come to a different conclusion than you (actually, a conclusion that the vast majority of people have come to) shows just how delusional you are.

    I would recommend reading “The Great Derangement” by Matt Tabibi – it goes into extreme detail as to why people migrate to fringe groups & beliefs – and why it is so hard for them to accept that their positions are unsupported by any actual evidence.

  26. White Rose on September 3, 2014 at 1:10 pm said:

    You know what you can do with that book title Lawrence ?
    Give a copy to BillyG and the rest of the depopulationists (Crooked Fella and the like) and ask them what caused them to migrate over to the eugenicist extremes .

  27. Sam Hall on September 3, 2014 at 3:52 pm said:

    Shh Larry no one is listening.

    OK So looked at the Hear this Well videos. It is a shame that the share to Facebook link is not working.
    It is also a shame that Youtube appears to limit the number of videos at 199

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiJxWs-bY30&index=184&list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

    I can tell you the silent are silent no more. This is a step change in the parents of vaccine injured children.
    If you know of a way to broadcast these videos without the use of Facebook please do because these are the real people behind this story. Family after family with identical stories…….The whistleblower is trying to protect himself and get on the right side when the wall comes down.

  28. Media Scholar on September 3, 2014 at 5:02 pm said:

    Talk about a blind dog in a meat market…..

    You wrote:

    I would recommend reading “The Great Derangement” by Matt Tabibi – it goes into extreme detail as to why people migrate to fringe groups & beliefs – and why it is so hard for them to accept that their positions are unsupported by any actual evidence.

    It’s probably a good idea to remind you that you are on Autism Investigated commenting on stories about a whistle-blower who has agreed to give precise evidence and critical details about United State Centers for Disease Control MMR research fraud. A whistle-blower, who has reportedly directly apologized to Andrew Wakefield for producing fake research which was used to screw Wakefield over.

    Once again, we see the same migration to firm denial. Hannah Poling. Poul Thorsen. etc.

    Are we still talking about this and not reversing course to compensating victims and families? It’s the American thing to do.

    This conduct of yours is the exact subject matter of the book you mention, no?

  29. sam hall on September 4, 2014 at 12:11 pm said:

    I feel that this whole Whistleblower story boils down to a media problem now.
    The information is there, the parents are talking and using social Media (despite blockers from FB and YouTube on publishing some info). But what this needs is either a single major traditional news outlet to run the story (government wont allow that) or a credible online news provider to run the story.

    Apparently 6 corporations own the media in the US.That becomes pretty easy for government censorship and control.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

    In UK is not too dissimilar:

    The ownership of national newspapers remains concentrated in just a few large companies: 70% of the UK national market is controlled by just three companies (News UK, Daily Mail and General Trust, and Trinity Mirror), with Rupert Murdoch’s News UK fully holding a third of the entire market share.

    Not too mention the fact the Bill Gates is funding at least one possibly two journalist salaries at the Guardian London.

    The big problem to solve is how to break through the Media road block. More science and research is not going to solve that problem. We need to figure out the media issue and pretty darn quick imho.

  30. @Sam – given the general lack of credibility that has hampered anti-vaccine groups in the past (shoddy science, conspiracy theories, talk of genocide – see WhiteRose above), mainstream media outlets aren’t going to touch this with a 10′ pole.

    Despite what people here think, media outlets – particularly ones like Fox News, love to go after government agencies for what could be perceived as malfeasance or just plain ineptitude (see the VA, for instance). Again, the fact that no one is touching this story speaks more about your credibility (and the people you associate with) than some vast conspiracy of silence…..

    No journalist is going to put their reputation on the line for the likes of Wakefield or Hooker, who, by their past actions, have become inherently unreliable. When a large (or at least loud) minority of your supporters base their entire belief system on a global conspiracy that spans civil, educational, and research institutions across every continent, and would have to include millions of individuals…well, that doesn’t play real well with normal, educated, rational human beings.

    No surprise that this is being ignored – and rightly so.

  31. @Jake – now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, when do you plan on presenting your own interpretation and explanation of Hooker’s study (methodology, confirmation of results, etc), using your newly-minted degree in Epidemiology?

  32. Media Scholar on September 4, 2014 at 10:33 pm said:

    @Sam – given the general lack of credibility that has hampered anti-vaccine groups in the past (shoddy science, conspiracy theories, talk of genocide – see WhiteRose above), mainstream media outlets aren’t going to touch this with a 10′ pole.

    ——

    Where’s the remarks about how there is a general idea vaccines are used to deliberately harm American infants and toddlers in order to stimulate economic gains amongst foreign-owned vaccine-manufacturing drug giants?

    Along with establishing clandestine Autism surveillance operations controlled by the US Centers for Disease Control, across the United States the foreign-owned vaccine-manufacturing drug giants invaded creating Autism pill mills which dot the landscape using lily-white American doctors to pass their junk.

    Putting mercury into babies is stupid, stupid, stupid dumb. So why are you still doing it, yet telling Americans you aren’t?

  33. Doug Troutman on September 5, 2014 at 12:59 am said:

    William Thompson said the study was changed to get the results they wanted. I want to know who he means by higher ups. Who is giving the marching orders? That is what needs to addressed.

  34. I think this controversy will help to increase bribes to Congress. This will make the thieves in Congress happy and they will gleefully approve the poisoning of more babies.

  35. Diverting/ distracting/derailing the point is the paid shill playbook.’talk about anything but this’ , and is one of the tactics of obfuscation/denial to make you throw your hands up sang go away, everything Larry is doing.

  36. White Rose on September 7, 2014 at 9:34 am said:

    To all on here :
    To my mind none of this industrialised mass poisoning would be possible if it were not for the full & complete cooperation of the mass market media (which of course is fully controlled by just a handful of companies). So it is there we should concentrate our efforts of protest . Against the Murdochs and the Ted Turners etc . I am accusing the media of complete complicity with vaccine barbarism .
    Top of the list of the guilty players is the good old BBC – managers of Hg-enocide .
    Protest against the state controlled censorship .

  37. White Rose on September 7, 2014 at 10:30 am said:

    Another thing all on here can do is :
    If we are serious about bringing the vaccine criminals to justice .
    We have to play dirty with these scoundrels .
    We need to get this latest information out to the Black communities , to the black MPs , to the black specific media , we need their help to bring this heinous conspiracy DOWN.
    Its great to see some of the rhetoric appearing over at AoA (but really can you believe them – if they were the real deal they would have expelled the Blaxman from their ranks) .AoA will not even allow discussion of Blaxmans role is spoiling the Omnibus petition , and the appearance of Brian Hooker before congress.

    We are close , I can feel it , for sure . The collapse of the “Vaccine LIES” is imminent .
    Offit must be so worried – his liberty , his ill gotten wealth , his reputation , his family , his marriage , everything that was once at stake for all of us parents , is now at stake for Paul Offit .

  38. White Rose on September 7, 2014 at 10:40 am said:

    & don’t forget those Whistleblowers against more Merck lies about the Mumps vaccine :

    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/judge-lawsuit-against-mercks-mmr-vaccine-fraud-to-continue/

    Love it Larry !

  39. I’d prefer to hear Jake talk about the actual science & statistical methods used in the two papers….

  40. White Rose on September 9, 2014 at 9:35 am said:

    100,000 cdc documents Larry . We are going through them now.
    Oh dear , oh dear

    • @WR- you are? Really? I’d be happy to meet you in the Congressman’s office & go through them together….

      I wonder how much time $40,000 will buy of Congressman Posey’s time on this? What do you think – a press release, maybe a public statement or two?

      Again, I’m waiting for Jake to address the actual Science here – as opposed to operating a gossip column…because, you know, he’s supposed to have a degree is this kind of stuff.

  41. White Rose on September 10, 2014 at 7:33 am said:

    I’d rather take that $40,000 and hire some investigative staff to do what the US authorities seem unable to do . Track down Poul Thoresen ! Remember him Larry (check with your handler perhaps) , the man you used to wheel out to produce fraudulent Danish studies saying vaccines and Autism are unrelated .
    Until he ran off with all the ca$h but perhaps he is hiding i the ground now – who knows .

    Larry , the defence of vaccines as not being the cause of Autism now lies in tatters .
    The chemical dumbing down of the populace is a project that is doomed to fail .
    Israel just reversed their water flouridation policy (Ireland to follow very soon) .
    Its over Larry – give it up . And you might want to think about removing those mercury amalgams Larrry !

    The

  42. White Rose on September 10, 2014 at 10:16 am said:

    Three cheers for CNN & Elizabeth Cohen . Her supreme obnoxiousness has at last galvanised the Autism community in solid protest & direct action with the “Hear This Well” videos all over YouTube .
    Marvellous . Make sure though that every two parents makes two separate videos .

    If Nancy Snydermann could just wade in now , and I’m sure this will all be over
    “There is no conspiracy folks , just get your damn vaccines” The Swine Flu Hoax of 2009 (not to be confused with the earlier swine flu hoax of 1976) .

    Hopefully Larry you’ll be out of work soon .

  43. When I see a paid pro-vax operative on site, like Larry, the info must be good or a shill wouldn’t be here. Thanx Lar!

  44. Bayareamom on September 10, 2014 at 7:20 pm said:

    Jake,

    I viewed a short segment of Dr. Hooker’s presentation at the Autism One Conference (I believe that’s where the presentation was held); in that short segment, Dr. Hooker reveals he DID KNOWINGLY TAPE his conversation with William Thompson. Dr. Hooker states unequivocally he taped this conversation w/o Thompson’s knowledge and did so under the advice of his attorneys. Dr. Hooker states the taping was, according to his attorney, completely legal.

    Given the above, it seems as though both Drs. Wakefield and Hooker intentionally ‘outed’ Thompson, given this revelation by Dr. Hooker. (I cannot imagine Dr. Wakefield presented his video release w/o Dr. Hooker’s knowledge beforehand. I could be incorrect, but I’ve not read or heard any evidence to the contrary.)

    In light of the most recent revealings of Mr. Thompson’s mea culpa to Dr. Wakefield, it does seem as though these three men have a sort of tactful agreement/understanding with one another.

    Personally, I don’t think Mr. Thompson’s name should have been released. I am not condoning this man’s behavior at all; he was complicit in this behavior that affected our kid as well. And it makes me mad/sad – just plain furious.

    But at the same time, he did not know his name/voice was going to be revealed at the time he was speaking with Dr. Hooker. It certainly seems as though Thompson did not know the video was going to be released, or at the minimum, had been told it was going to be released, but also told there was nothing he could do to stop it.

    I would imagine the documentation that Thompson released to Dr. Hooker could have been done so w/o having released Thompson’s name as the source. Why Drs. Hooker and Wakefield felt compelled to release Thompson’s name is a matter of conjecture (at least with the majority of the public) at this point.

    Upon reading ‘No More Fake News’ latest article re: this matter, Jon writes:

    “In Thompson’s confession, released through his Cincinnati attorney, Rick Morgan, Thompson asserted that he would work with Congress, but he wouldn’t speak to reporters.

    Why not?

    Two reasons immediately spring to mind.

    Thompson made a deal with the CDC, where he is still employed. He would aid in the current media blackout, thus trying to preserve the reputation of his bosses. In Thompson’s confession, released through his Cincinnati attorney, Rick Morgan, Thompson asserted that he would work with Congress, but he wouldn’t speak to reporters.

    Why not?

    Two reasons immediately spring to mind.

    Thompson made a deal with the CDC, where he is still employed. He would aid in the current media blackout, thus trying to preserve the reputation of his bosses. In return, the CDC wouldn’t take any number of possible actions against him, the lightest of which would be suspension.

    Two, by avoiding reporters, Thompson side-steps very unpleasant confrontations—if those reporters aren’t corporate androids. In return, the CDC wouldn’t take any number of possible actions against him, the lightest of which would be suspension…”

    Time will tell how all this plays out. In the meanwhile, Thompson has clearly shown where his line in the sand is drawn.

    He’s still gainfully employed by the CDC and has essentially, hunkered down. His conscience allowed him for the briefest moment in time to reveal itself. How this may ultimately manifest with him in the near future remains to be seen.

    Personally, I don’t understand how Thompson can continue living with himself, knowing he was complicit in the deliberate attempt to conceal information from an unknowing public. That deliberate deceit could have cost the lives if not only our kid, but has essentially caused untold damage to so many others. That’s a lot of information to live with, on one’s conscience. It certainly appears as though Thompson’s conscience has been tugging at him for many years. But yet, not enough to come forward with what he knew.

    I wouldn’t want to live in his shoes. He’s not a young man; I would imagine he has retirement to consider, and a wife/family who depend on him for support. I can imagine the moral dilemma he is confronted with on a daily basis.

    Still, these same type moral decisions are decisions many are confronted with in a lifetime. These decisions do not present themselves in an easy manner. A TRUE hero, in my book, is someone who speaks the truth WHEN the truth becomes KNOWN in any particular timeframe.

    I admire both Dr. Wakefield and Dr. Hooker very, very much. But in this one instance, with this outing issue with Thompson, I disagree with the manner in which Drs. Hooker and Wakefield played their hand. I don’t have all the particulars as to what transpired from the moment Thompson revealed what he knew to Dr. Hooker, to the point wherein this video was released by Dr. Wakefield.

    I think the Bigger Picture remains: Given the very public outing of Mr. Thompson, how will this impact future whistleblowers with the CDC (or any other entity) who may have been considering coming forth?

    This is a very high stakes game and one not to be taken lightly by those unfamiliar with the game strategies these corporations utilize and will wield when their status quo become sullied.

    So yeah, I definitely agree Thompson shouldn’t have been outed. He was not a true whistleblower. If he’d truly wanted to go public, he would have gone to his attorneys FIRST and procured whistleblower status before revealing his hand.

    To me, Thompson’s act was PURELY an act of conscience, stated during what he presumed was a private phone conversation. Whatever impact the revealing of this information may have had, could now conceivably be considered for all intents and purposes, to have become seriously diluted. The CDC has obviously reined in their whisleblower and has, thus far, effective thwarted any attempt to essentially bring this dynamite information through to the MSM.

    Game won. For now.

    Time will tell where this all will end up, obviously. But unless others come forward as to what they may know, this new information may be yet just another blowup that disappears into the sand.

    I hope that’s not the case. The cracks are definitely leaking; truth ALWAYS

  45. Bayareamom on September 10, 2014 at 7:21 pm said:

    …pushed that send button before I was through. But yeah – truth always comes out in the end. There’s always hope.

  46. Lawrence on September 10, 2014 at 9:11 pm said:

    You guys still can’t get over the fact that a rational, logical person can look at the mountain of evidence and come to a different conclusion than you (and quite frankly, the vast majority of people reject your assertions)…..

  47. Bayareamom on September 10, 2014 at 10:57 pm said:

    Re: my post: Obviously, Hooker ‘knowingly’ taped his conversation with Thompson. I just re-read my comment and realized my typo. Clearly I meant he was stating he taped this conversation w/o two party consent.

  48. Bayareamom on September 10, 2014 at 11:40 pm said:

    Lawrence,

    Our PEDIATRICIANS acknowledged our son’s vaccine reactions. My husband and I (both sound, rational/logical people) didn’t know what the hell was happening to our son at the time. It was when I held out the phone to our pediatrician (so he could hear our son’s horrific screaming), that our pediatric staff realize our son was having documented vaccine reactions to his (then) whole cell pertussis DPT vaccine.

    After that horrific time, our son’s medical staff exempted our son from ever having any other vaccine which contained the pertussis component (including the now Dtap vaccine as well).

    Also, when I asked our pediatrician what the hell had happened to our son after this horrible reaction, he flat out told me our son would experience learning issues once he reached Kindergarten.

    He did. He was evaluated at Children’s Oakland Hospital as having severe, profound Dysgraphia, an inability to understand math concepts/principles and exhibited higher order language deficits. Thankfully, we were able to afford long term tutoring for our son, as well as the necessary therapy which helped him overcome most of his higher order language deficits. However, he still suffers with profound dysgraphia, something Dr. Grandison indicated she had never seen before. (His Dysgraphia was more profound than in any other child she had evaluated.)

    Our son suffered reactions IMMEDIATELY POST VACCINATION. But as I’ve stated, we didn’t know what was happening to our son. Our pediatric staff sure did, though. It was only later, after we commenced with our own research, that we found documentation in peer reviewed medical journals, describing to a “T” the precise reactions our son suffered with, as well. These journals dated back to the late 1930’s, when some of the reactions to the whole cell pertussis vaccine, were first duly noted.

    Lawrence, I’ve developed quite a thick skin since our son’s horrific reactions. As I’ve stated previously, I only hope you never witness your own children, or that of your grandchildren, suffer the way so many of these children (and adults) have post vaccination. Vaccines are DRUGS and as such, they do and can, cause extreme harm/damage, and even death.

    So stop it already.

  49. Bayareamom on September 10, 2014 at 11:56 pm said:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3284047/

    SNIP:

    Abstract

    “A 5-month-old male patient developed recurrent seizures and acute encephalopathy possibly due to first dose of diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), and tetanus (DPT) vaccine used for routine immunization. Postreaction computed tomography (CT) scan of brain, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of brain, and electroencephalogram were normal. Pertussis fraction of DPT vaccine is responsible for this reaction. It is suggested that acellular pertussis vaccine should be used instead of whole cell vaccine because it is associated with lower frequency of neurological complications, such as seizures, encephalopathy, and hypotensive episodes. However, acellular pertussis-containing vaccines are currently not affordable in most developing countries.”

    What we’ve since learned since our son’s reactions to vaccines is that the benefits statement is vastly overrated and the risks associated with vaccines are vastly understated.

    Keywords: Acute encephalopathy, recurrent seizures, whole cell DPT vaccine

  50. Bayareamom on September 11, 2014 at 1:43 am said:

    This may be going a bit off-track here, but just found this article on someone’s Facebook page and thought I’d provide the link and as snip or the article, here:

    http://preventdisease.com/news/14/091014_One-Third-Nurses-Leaving-Jobs-Losing-Faith-in-Vaccines.shtml

    SNIP:

    Fear of Side Effects

    …”Nurses have reported on their experiences of side effects of vaccines. They feel that the risk of contracting the diseases and the severity are not worth the risk of being injected with a vaccine that was not in use long enough to know what the side effects are. This is directed towards both influenza and pertussis vaccines, and they feel authorities are using them as guinea pigs.

    More doctors are not using the Hib vaccine on their own children. Their reasons for declining the use of Hib for their own children included a lack of concern about the disease and the desire to reduce vaccines to a minimum.

    Similarly almost a growing number of physicians are not using the MMR on their own children to avoid the trivalent combined vaccines because of safety concerns, the preference for infection-driven rather than vaccine-induced immunity, and the conviction that specific non-medical treatments allow a benign outcome of measles, mumps, and rubella. More nonpediatricians are delaying the initiation of DTaP vaccination beyond 6 months. 15 percent nonpediatricians would not give the first dose of measles or MMR before 2 years of age. These choices for physicians’ own families seem to reflect the same concerns as those of other educated health care consumers.

    Growing Numbers of Anti-Vaccine-Friendly Doctors

    Most doctors kick patients out of their practice for not vaccinating, or for asking too many questions. But there are now many who will do their best to provide you with vaccine advice and/or alternative schedules. There are now so many parents looking for these types of doctors that they have been inundated with phone calls from parents who want to seek advice on alternatives to vaccination. Dr. Sears hosts one such list on his website and divides them by state. List of vaccine-friendly doctors

    The Tides are Turning And The Vaccination Game Will End

    The antivaccinationist ideals the nurses expressed are an indication of the resistance within medical circles. Emotions and attitudes such as fear of the vaccines and mistrust in the health authorities and leading factors in lower compliance rates.

    These attitudes and emotions may influence their actions toward other vaccines in the future. Eventually physicians and medical students themselves will begin to question vaccine wisdom. The house of cards is crumbling and the vaccination hoax health authorities have promoted to the population is being exposed.”

  51. Given that the DPT vaccine hasn’t been used in this country for a very long time – and the DTaP vaccine was developed and used specifically to address the issues you raised (though further research has shown that the original concerns were blown completely out of proportion – but better to be safe than sorry right?), yet the anti-vax groups now complain about the DTaP because it isn’t as “effective” as it was originally hoped….there is no pleasing these people, it seems.

    And I’m still waiting for Jake to give his scientific opinion on the modeling used in Hooker’s paper…..

  52. White Rose on September 11, 2014 at 10:10 am said:

    The CDC = the Criminal Destruction of Children

  53. White Rose on September 11, 2014 at 12:13 pm said:

    “the vast majority of people reject your assertions)…..”

    Only because of a total and complete state censorship sponsored blackout which disallows all questioning of vaccines. A perfect example of this is the BBC (Brainwashing , Bribery & Corruption)

    We dont need a majority . I think we only need 10% for the whole vaccine project to lie in ruins and tatters .
    Who knows maybe less 5% even .

    Larry , message for your handler and his\her boss too , you are not getting away with this mass poisoning .
    No matter what . Feel the determination .

  54. @WhiteRose – it must be a very interesting (and very lonely) world that you live in, to believe in such a world-spanning conspiracy……if only the world was that interesting, but you see, it really isn’t.

    As Matt Tabibi would say, in “The Great Derangement” there is a subset of people who feel so divorced from the mainstream, whether it be alienated by politics or just plain alienated (perhaps for religious convictions, morality, or distrust of the government), that they end up gravitating to fringe beliefs – such at this anti-vaccination message you’ve adopted.

    Because you now know “THE TRUTH” it gives your life meaning and purpose, something that you felt was lacking before…and this is why it is so hard to have your beliefs challenged – because this “TRUTH” is a very part of your personality and character – that any evidence or pronouncement that contradicts the “TRUTH” is an attack on your very person.

    Anti-vaccine, 9-11 conspiracy nuts, Illuminati, Sovereign Citizens, etc – are all part of this fringe, which helps give people some semblance of order, in a very disorderly world.

    You just can’t get your head around the idea that people will legitimately disagree with you – and that’s your problem, not mine. Luckily for the rest of us, reality has a very pro-science bias.

    • On August 10th, I asked Larry the following question:

      “Can you show me the scientific proof that so convinced you that vaccines are safe and effective? And explain why you consider that proof to be so irrefutable?”.

      He has never provided an answer to that very simple question.

      So although he claims to be so rooted in the “reality” of science, he is completely unable to produce any of it.

      Ins’t it funny, that he thinks were all so deluded??

      • @Barry – there are literally mountains of proof, from all over the world, through the past decades that show vaccines to be both safe and effective (not to mention the millions of lives that have been saved by vaccines).

        It isn’t my fault that you are so deluded to believe the ravings of people like WhiteRose & others – not to mention discredited and disreputable doctors, who’s work has never been replicated by any legitimate source….

        You can believe that there is some over-arching conspiracy to hide the truth, or you can join the rest of us here in the real world…trust me, its a lot better over here.

        • Doesn’t matter what I believe Larry , nor does it matter how someone chose to write our history books.

          What matters is that I asked you to show me scientific proof that vaccines are safe and effective, with an explanation of what makes that proof so irrefutable.

          And once again, you are unable to produce anything.

  55. Bayareamom on September 11, 2014 at 11:11 pm said:

    I will absolutely not engage with you, Larry. Have fun talking to yourself…

  56. Jake,
    Would you comment on Dr Michael Carome’s opinions as reported by Sharyl Attkinsson ? See : http://sharylattkisson.com/questions-surrounding-review-of-challenged-vaccine-autism-study

    If Dr. Carome’s position is relevant (?), wouldn’t it be usefull to ask other specialists of ethics/ publication what they think about the reaction of Pediatrics ( and of Dr. Carome’s opinion) ?

    Waiting for your answer.

  57. White Rose on September 12, 2014 at 2:02 pm said:

    Larry – pathetic response.

    9-11 theories are interesting but dont concern me much .
    I’m no a conspiracy nut .
    The Illuminati is not smthg I know much about (or the Bildebergs , or Rookefeller or Rothschild)
    None of these subjects are relevant here , unless you know smthg I dont .
    First time I’ve heard the term “sovereign Citizens” – thanks for the education .

    Now let me educate you – with smthg I know – that clearly you dont :
    vaccines cause Autism . Poul Thoresen was a researcher\thief who the CDC used to cover up this story . William Thompson has spoken out quite clearly that the CDC is a criminal fraud . None of this has been reported by the mainstream media – do you say none of this happened Larry ? Why the news blackout ?

    And as regards this Autism Prevention & Cessation movement (which therefore is implicitly anti-vaccine for vaccines are the major cause of autism – 99% of the time I’d say) – we are no fringe group Larry .
    And this is the very reason why you are employed to counter us – because we are an already substantial & growing force . We number in the many hundreds of thousands , if not perhaps , millions .
    On farcebook alone we number 300,000+ (& farcebook censors us as you’d expect)

    For Example (from the LA Times):
    In the seven years since “The Vaccine Book: Making the Right Decision for Your Child” was published, it has sold more than 250,000 copies and Sears has become a celebrity among parents who see danger in immunization.

    While the vast majority of physicians are troubled by the anti-vaccination movement, Sears, 45, lends a sympathetic ear. About half his patients forgo vaccines altogether. To others, he offers “Dr. Bob’s” alternative and selective vaccination schedules, which delay or eliminate certain immunizations….
    ———————————————————————————-
    I’m also fed up with you Lar –

    thanks BayAreaMom

  58. Instead of waiting for Jake to post up his examination of the statistics behind the two studies in question, someone got there first:

    http://blog.minitab.com/blog/adventures-in-statistics/analysis-and-reanalysis3a-the-controversy-behind-mmr-vaccinations-and-autism2c-part-1

    http://blog.minitab.com/blog/adventures-in-statistics/analysis-and-reanalysis3a-the-controversy-behind-mmr-vaccinations-and-autism2c-part-2

    Purely from a statistical standpoint, Hooker doesn’t even have a leg left to stand on….no wonder his paper was withdrawn pending further investigation into the methods, since even simple statisticians can find gaping holes in his process.

  59. @barry – that’s “bait” and no, I expected Jake, with his recent degree in this very area of Science, to be able to articulate an honest take on the statistics….but, it seems that he is unable to.

    • Larry, I know the statistics; the blog you linked to is the corporate blog of a company that serves pharma and whose claim that “No data was discarded” is simply a lie that is directly contradicted by the whistleblower’s statement that backs up the relationship found in Dr. Hooker’s paper.

      Low birth weight children were excluded in an analysis of the birth certificate sample reported in Dr. Hooker’s paper and a greater than two-fold risk for autism was still found. That would contradict the claim that low birth weight children were not considered in his analysis and that if they were no associations would be reported. And while you repeat the oft-cited talking point that the data was simply “tortured,” don’t forget that the results found in Dr. Hooker’s paper were also found by the CDC researchers who the whistleblower said omitted the data from their paper. Obviously, the CDC felt these results had value but didn’t want them published.

      • @Jake – another one of your “6-degrees” associations? Really?

        I had expected so much more from you, now that you have your degree – what, no examination of the actual data (you can request it directly from the CDC – they have all of the information available via a simple research request)….in fact, the data was available to researchers for years, in the public domain, but no one issued a request for it.

        Again, I am very disappointed that you are not taking the opportunity to put your knowledge to work and show some real Science, instead of simply repeating what you are told by others, especially by someone like Hooker….if his paper is fully retracted & the results are found to be flawed, then the entire basis of your argument is invalid anyway.

        Think about that – just because someone says something (like Hooker’s statement) doesn’t make it true, regardless of how much you want to believe.

      • Lawrence on September 14, 2014 at 5:36 pm said:

        @jake – a company that sells software to thousands of organizations, worldwide? Part of the conspiracy, really?

    • “Can you show me the scientific proof that so convinced you that vaccines are safe and effective? And explain why you consider that proof to be so irrefutable?”.

      …. any closer to finding this Larry? Or are you too busy correcting spelling errors?

      • Hey, you’re the one that can’t spell – not my fault (once again).

        I rely on the entire body of knowledge around vaccines – the historical development from the beginning, the research process (by NIH, independent labs, the companies themselves, the FDA, educational and research associations around the world, and other government regulatory agencies), not to mention the multitude of clinical trials, starting from Stage I – through human trials and post-release surveillance programs, both here in the United States and also overseas as well.

        I also rely on the multitude of studies on vaccine effectiveness and safety that have been done on the current series of vaccines (and historical ones – done on vaccines that are no longer used – the how’s and why’s – either the disease was eliminated (Smallpox), the vaccine was replaced (IPV vs. OPV), or ultimately the vaccine was replaced due to safety concerns (DPT vs. DTaP or the Rotavirus vaccine replacement).

        I keep current on all forms of research, and applying new studies against the old to see what is new and interesting. The vast body of knowledge is out there & easy to find – from a variety of well-regarded and legitimate sources.

        I tend to ignore studies by discredited and disreputable researchers (though I will read their work) and find that there usually isn’t even a plausible biological process in the hypothesis & the results are never replicated.

        In the case of the Hooker study, his statistics are horrible and his COI is quite blatant – and my guess is that the journal will ultimately retract the paper citing flawed process and results, not to mention COIs in the peer-review process – probably citing the Geiers among those who peer-reviewed the paper (just my guess, of course).

        Of course, unlike you – I don’t take things at face-value & I do look underneath the hood of studies to understand the process used & why. I look to see if the results are exhibited in large-scale populations (if you state that a certain group has a 3-fold risk of something, does that play out in the population in general…if it doesn’t, then something is wrong with your process or numbers, or both).

        You ask for the Science – well, the Science is out there, literally hundreds and thousands of studies, safety trials, examinations, surveillance data, historical records, etc. Just because you don’t understand it (either through shear ignorance or you turn a blind eye to anything that doesn’t support your anti-vaccine position), matters little to me.

        At the end of the day, you represent no more than another fringe group that has taken to a particular issue because it helps you cope with some divorce or isolation from mainstream society.

        It wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but because of you and others, we are seeing a resurgence of certain diseases in this country & an increase in people that are at risk….and that makes it worthwhile to combat your particular brand of nonsense so that we can get back to the job of eliminating a good number of these diseases (and end up making these vaccines obsolete).

        The only ones here making money for the Pharma Industry is you – because your crusade against vaccines will do nothing but put more kids in the hospital.

        • Spelling is pretty important Larry, but comprehension…. now that’s what really counts.

          I asked you to show me the scientific proof that so convinced you that vaccines are safe and effective. And explain why you consider that proof to be so irrefutable.

          And so far, you’ve done neither.

          • @Barry – if you can’t even understand what I wrote, you’re certainly worse off than I thought. Perhaps you need to lie down, take a load off & come back at some point when you’ve had a bit of rest.

            • Oh I understand what you wrote Larry. It’s a long winded attempt to side step a question that you know you can’t answer.

              It’s fluff Larry. And it’s all you got.

        • gruffalo on September 15, 2014 at 12:54 pm said:

          “shear” ignorance – lol. It’s sheer, btw.

  60. If anyone in the wacky world of autism wakes up and learns what “deception” means, somebody let me know. Thanks.

    • My autism experience is better defined as crushing sadness for the harm that was inflicted upon my son. But hey , you can use ‘wacky’ if that works for you.

      So I’m curios John. If the rest of us do wake up tomorrow, figure out what ‘deception’ means, and we let you know…. what are you gonna do?

  61. Barry, If you and the other sheep wake up, I’ll give you the specifics of how you were deceived and who did it to you, how you were misled to lose to Congress and their agents in drug companies.
    “Wacky” is letting psychological warfare agents lead you into traps that were designed to prevent you from defeating your enemies. Autism to me is anger more than sadness. I helped my son and he’s much better. Now, I want to prevent others from the same fate. You’re being led by people who are trying to cause more autism. I know, you can’t see that because they’re your pals and you want to trust them. I thought they were my pals too ten years ago. Then I saw their sadistic agenda. For the sake of future babies, it would be good if you smartened up and stopped listening to liars.

    • What the hell are you talking about?

      Are you really so self centred as to think you’re the only one who ‘knows’ they were deceived? Who knows that their vaccine inured child was hurt by a doctor that they trusted? Doctors who are covering up the evidence of their abject negligence … by telling us we have to call it autism?

      I’ve spent the last 8 years, and more money that I can count trying to undo my sons vaccine damage. And I will never give up trying John, because the chance of helping him is worth every cent. And although I’m glad that you were able to help you vaccine injured child, don’t think for a second that you’re the only one who’s determined enough to try.

      I agree with a lot of what you say John, but your attitude sucks. The bottom line is that vaccinated children get autism, and completely unvaccinated children do not. That is the only truth that anyone needs to know. And anyone who tries to tell you anything different, is full of shit.

      You come here and dump on the rest of for being dumb, do-nothing sheeple. But from where I’m siting, you don’t seem to be doing a whole lot more.

      • Barry, It’s not about just vaccines. It’s about humanity.
        One specific lie is the lie that unvaccinated kids don’t get autism. The primary method of causing autism now is the flu shot to pregnant women. Those babies are born with their brains scrambled, unlike those of us who saw normal kids regress. Those kids may not have been vaccinated at all. The naive parents who are told that autism is genetic will be likely to believe it since their baby is born damaged and they can see it. The things parents don’t see is the lowered IQs since every one of those kids loses brain cells. They’re trying to “dumb down” the whole country. 70% of the country has fluoride in their drinking water to also lower IQs.
        The liars in the autism community lie to you a little bit about what causes autism but you can find your way around that. If it’s possible to help your kid, you can find real answers. Did you use ALA? The thing you can’t fight alone is the lying leaders presenting us to Congress like a bunch of sheep ready to be eaten. The solution doesn’t lie in uniting with other people complaining about the Medical Industry and begging Congress to help them. The solution lies in uniting with humanity against lawyers and bankers. They’re the ones who abuse every person in the country and they’re the ones who give the orders to Congress. Your “leaders” won’t tell you this since some of them associate freely with lawyers. I know, you won’t easily accept the fact that all lawyers have sworn allegiance against the USA. If you come to see that truth, you can progress from there.
        We have all been reduced to slave mentalities wherein we ASK Congress to listen to us. This is not what being Americans is all about. WE own the country. Politicians are our servants and WE need to treat them as such. You don’t go begging to these servants respectfully asking them to do the right thing. You slap them in the head, repeatedly and as harshly as possible. You join with people who understand the truth about the Federal Reserve because those people know that Congress is 100% corrupt and enemies of the USA. The autism community doesn’t know that because they have been misled by experts who never point out these facts. These bogus “leaders” would call me names like “conspiracy theorist”. But, what I really am is a former USAF officer who took an oath to defend the country from domestic enemies. If you don’t know who those enemies are and how they subverted our freedom, you can’t do your job. I’ve done the research. I identified the enemies. Write me off as a flake or do the research yourself. I’m telling you that your leaders are all enemies, the same thing Jake has been telling you from a different perspective. I don’t think Jake grasps the big picture but he found some of the subversion here.

        • John,

          Homefirst Medical services has 40 odd thousand completely unvaccinated children , who have completely avoided autism. You can’t say that about any population who has been exposed to vaccines, no matter how many they received. So the ONLY complete truth that has ever been uttered in the context of autism, is that completely unvaccinated children do not get autism

          I know the genetic argument is is nonsense , only morons believe in genetic epidemics. I also know that the banking cartels, the privately owned federal reserve, corrupt congress….I could go on and on. I understand that giving flu shots to pregnant women, is about creating that missing population of “born with it” autism. But do you really think that this is any different than creating it with a Hep shot injected on the first day of life??? Often without the parents even knowing that it was given ?? Can you tell the difference between autism that was created in the womb, and autism that was created with a hep vaccine on the first day of life?

          I realize that this is an attack from within. And IMO, the only thing that’s going to stop this madness, is getting the truth to parents about what has been done to their babies.

          The following video is of a mother grizzly, defending her cubs against a hungry adult male

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-vWeZhLaU

          That is parental instinct John, and it exists in humans too. It’s a force of nature that no-one in their right mind takes lightly. And this video is just a glimpse of what the perpetuators of this crime are eventually going to face, from HOARDS of angry parents, when they come to know the truth about what vaccines have done to their babies.

          • Barry, People were vaccinated from 1798 to 1930 without one case of autism (except a few alleged relatives of Neurodiverse psychos). There was no mercury in those vaccines. There was also no autism in NH, MS and D.C. until 1991 when HepB was added. It’s not about vaccines. It’s about the mercury in them and the age that it is injected into the babies, before they have a blood brain barrier. This is old news. It was perverted by the creeps who gained controlled of the autism community between 2004 and 2005.
            Parents COULD be led to mount a useful offensive against Congress and the Medical industry but the controlled opposition leadership amongst us won’t let them. They keep leading parents to useless and stupid protests that are designed to make them lose. This is what Blaxill and Safe Minds did. It’s what the Canary Party and Thinking Moms Revolution does. It’s what Age of Autism and GR does. All of their alleged protests are designed to fail, on purpose.

          • Barry, I’ll note further that your parental instinct has been controlled by psychological warfare agents. I have tried for 11 years to find some angry parents who want to fight. There aren’t any. I don’t know if they were all made docile by fluoride, if they’re afraid of the government or if they’re just going to wait for a savior. They won’t fight though.

  62. White Rose on September 16, 2014 at 9:33 am said:

    Yes John – it is deliberate – nssm200 – anything more to add than that ?

    medicine , pharma harma is our enemy
    govt
    & media

    what else ?

  63. sam hall on September 16, 2014 at 4:13 pm said:

    Holy sh*t balls – spell that Lar

    So I happened to gaze at AOA, the article about RFK. Watch the video. What a let down. I only watched the first couple of mins and will watch the rest later but Jake and many of your here called that guy right. He let down the community. There is everything wrong with vaccines…..make no mistake.

  64. MurphysLaw on September 17, 2014 at 2:49 am said:

    Dear Jake, seems your motives are a bit impure. You’re an epidemiologist? Neat. I’m *ACTUALLY* a chemist with pharmaceutical experience (you know, in real life.. not just in my head).. I wholeheartedly believe in vaccinating my children, and have done so. I am 100% confident in my decision to have done so. Furthermore, I haven’t worked with a single other person in the sciences who DOESN’T believe in vaccinating their children. These are extremely intelligent individuals who specialize in scientific research, development, and advancement, and they also strongly believe in vaccinating their children. I would think that speaks for itself. Please stop praying on people’s fears. If you had legitimate proof of what you are claiming, it would be all over the news headlines. Not just a flagged article on CNN iReport. Oh, honey… That said, I highly, highly, doubt that you are an epidemiologist. If you are one, than you are most likely trying to dig out a niche for yourself, for attention from the scientific community. Just a hint, this isn’t the kind of attention most scientists want.

    • Why do you allow trolls like this to comment. Any chemist would state his real name so you could check his credentials. This is probably some slob smoking cigars at his computer and being paid by the government to write nonsense.

    • gruffalo on September 17, 2014 at 7:29 pm said:

      It’s preying on people’s fears, Larry, not praying.

    • So what? Obviously, there are a lot of people working in your field who selectively vaccinate- William Thompson, CDC researcher, for one. There seem to be many in your field who do not vaccinate at all. Since you have posted anonymously, it’s not like you have much credibility yourself.

  65. White Rose on September 17, 2014 at 10:16 am said:

    In December of 1974, shortly after the first major international population conference was held under UN auspices at Bucharest, Romania, several of the major U.S. government agencies involved in foreign affairs submitted a detailed report on population control in developing countries. Contributions came from the Central Intelligence Agency, The Departments of States, Defense, and Agriculture, and the Agency for International Development. Their contributions were combined into one major report with the title, “Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security and Overseas Interests.” The final study, which is more than 200 pages in length, covered many topics from the viewpoint of each of the participating agencies. The following questions and answers cover just the most basic aspects of this crucial historical document.

    What does the term “NSSM 200” mean? “NSSM” stands for “National Security Study Memorandum,” and the number 200 identifies the order in which it was produced. The original request for a review of overseas population policies is also called NSSM 200, and was written April 27, 1974 by Henry Kissinger. The actual study, which covered 229 pages of text, represents one stage of the NSSM 200 correspondence series, and was submitted on December 10, 1974. It became the official guide to foreign policy November 26, 1975, when a National Security Decision Memorandum (NSDM 314) was signed that endorsed the findings of the study

    • So, Kissinger and pals ginned up a memo to incorporate the document that I’m not allowed to mention here as government policy. All the more reason to fire the whole government.

  66. White Rose on September 17, 2014 at 3:24 pm said:

    Murphys Law – what is this then – a Pork Chop ?

    The Telegraph: Damien McElroy, Reyhanli 16 Sep 2014
    Dozens of children feared dead after being injected with ‘tainted’ measles vaccine in Syria
    World Health Organisation programme is suspended after reports that up to 36 children have died after receiving the vaccination.

    And as for them being tainted – I agree – but just in accordance with the usual manufacturers requirements.

    ML – make sure to get your Flu vaccine this year –

    • @WhiteRose – so, no follow-up to show that the children died of something other than a “tainted vaccine?” It was mislabeled drugs & not a vaccine after all.

  67. Neat. I’m *ACTUALLY* a chemist with pharmaceutical experience (you know, in real life.. not just in my head).. I wholeheartedly believe in vaccinating my children, and have done so. I am 100% confident in my decision to have done so.

    ***************

    Wow Murhpy’s Law/Larry, you’re actually a scientist. Good for you. I’m a brain surgeon most days, but some days I strap on my astronaut suit. That is, when I’m not too busy doing deep sea welding.

    I noticed that you referred to Jake as… ‘Honey’. Is that a commonly used term in the lab where you and all your extremely intelligent colleagues work?

    Out of curiosity, did your fully vaccinated children receive their MMR vaccines before they were 36 months of age? Or are you among the tiny group of scientists kept that little secret to themselves?

    Although I don’t believe it, there are people in this world who say that Paul Offit is an extremely intelligent scientist. According to Mr. Offitt, healthy infants can receive up to 100,000 vaccines at one. If he recommended that for your child tomorrow, would you follow his advice? And if not, how many vaccines would you give your child at once?

    • @Barry – unlike some people, I don’t pretend to be more than one person (I’m looking at you, Ms. Parker)…and nice misinterpretation of Offit’s statement, where he actually was talking about antigens, not vaccines.

      • Nope.

        The exact words published were:

        “In fact, Dr. Offit’s studies show that in theory, healthy infants could safely get up to 100,000 vaccines at once.”

        You can split hairs all you want Larry, because no-one here pays attention to that nonsense.

        But you do need to get your facts straight.

  68. Doug Troutman on September 19, 2014 at 1:13 am said:

    Murph- You are entitled to your faith in vaccines but I am more interested what Dr. Thompson had to say about cooking the study.

  69. And Andrew Wakefield’s case in Texas is OVER!!!

    NO. 03-12-00576-CV
    Dr. Andrew J. Wakefield, MB, BS, Appellant
    v.
    The British Medical Journal Publishing Group, Ltd.;
    Brian Deer; and Dr. Fiona Godlee, Appellees
    APPEAL FROM 250TH DISTRICT COURT OF TRAVIS COUNTY
    BEFORE CHIEF JUSTICE JONES, JUSTICES GOODWIN AND FIELD
    AFFIRMED — OPINION BY JUSTICE FIELD

    This is an appeal from the judgment signed by the trial court on August 3, 2012. Having
    reviewed the record and the parties’ arguments, the Court holds that there was no reversible error
    in the trial court’s judgment. Therefore, the Court affirms the trial court’s judgment. The
    appellant shall pay all costs relating to this appeal, both in this Court and the court below.

    • Larry, this post has nothing to do with Wakefield. Your comment would be more relevant elsewhere.

    • Much to do about nothing.
      The ruling states Dr. Wakefield cannot sue in Texas. The ruling has nothing to do with the merits of the case. Did anyone expect more?

      Amy Clark Meachum, the judge who threw Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s case out of district court by essentially saying that BMJ, Fiona Godlee and Brian Deer can libel him all they want since they are from the UK, is married to a lobbyist named Kurt Meachum of Philips & Meachum Public Affairs.

      According to Texas Tribune Lobbyist’s directory, Kurt Meachum’s client, the Texas Academy of Family Physicians.

      The US has one of the most corrupt judicial systems in the world. Need more be said.

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  71. Ignore and don’t engage psychotic vaccine pushers. They are paid to argue with you. Arguing ad nauseum is all they got. They have paid-for opinions. Meaning, they sold what little soul they had left. Let them pump each others’ ego. And dismiss their a##!

  72. White Rose on September 20, 2014 at 4:49 pm said:

    The Texas case is now a complete irrelevance Lar . Its all about William Thompson now – I imagine even Dr Wakefield would even agree this .

    CNN (Ted Turner the mass eugenicist and Elizabeth Cohen) no less are still saying the deaths in Syria are from vaccines – 1 day ago – where are you seeing different ?
    And mysteriously the numbers killed by Pharma Harma (which apparently even YOU don’t dispute) is flying around . One minute it is at least 34 , and now its 15 , is this more of the military misinformation.

    Tainted vaccines my foot . They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do . Maim and murder .

  73. White Rose on September 21, 2014 at 9:17 am said:

    Message for Julie Gerberding – you are a mass murderer and are going to pay heavily for your crimes .

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