NVICP Congressional Hearing Cancelled

Cancelled

By Jake Crosby

Unconfirmed reports by several reliable sources including an attorney have been brought to the attention of Autism Investigated. According to these reports, the congressional hearing on the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has been cancelled by the House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform chaired by Congressman Darrell Issa. This information comes after a vaccine-injured child’s case was misrepresented at a congressional briefing by Canary Party, video footage of which was removed along with an entire post from the Canary Party-sponsored Age of Autism blog.

After Autism Investigated reported on the deletion of the video, Age of Autism restored the post without the video, claiming technical difficulties. Then, after Autism Investigated posted a link to the video and an Age of Autism reader requested AoA also provide a link, the video was fully restored with the technical excuses scrubbed. Below is the NVICP hearing cancellation message from the attorney who gives insight into the reasons behind the cancellation:

“I was just informed by the Counsel for Chairman Issa that due to ‘great deal of reluctance about participating or being drawn into what they, in their private candid discussions with us, say they see as an overly divisive issue’ they are canceling the hearing.”

Autism Investigated will provide updates as this story develops. If confirmed, it will be a tragedy that direct interference by Canary Party and specifically Mark Blaxill led to the collapse of the hearing. Blaxill said on Linderman last month that Canary Party asked for hearings on NVICP instead of CDC malfeasance (as was falsely promised to autism parent and scientist Dr. Brian Hooker) because that was the topic Issa wanted. Yet now Issa is cancelling the hearing because of the divisiveness of the topic itself – the very topic Blaxill claimed Issa wanted to hold the hearing about.

This is not the first hearing Mark Blaxill hijacked. After news of last year’s hearing was leaked at the 2012 AutismOne conference, Blaxill and SafeMinds – the organization whose government affairs committee he had chaired – hired a lobbyist who misrepresented Dr. Brian Hooker to congressional staffers. Dr. Hooker originally organized the November hearing and succeeded in having Issa commit to holding hearings on autism causation and the vaccine program.

Yet through questionable lobbying activities, SafeMinds and Mark Blaxill effectively changed the topic of the hearing to the “federal response” enabling autism epidemic deniers to be invited to give testimony. Blaxill testified instead of Dr. Hooker and refused to discuss the fraudulent research defending thimerosal that Dr. Hooker had planned to testify about. But what can one expect when Blaxill cited Thorsen’s fraud to defend thimerosal in email to none other than Dr. Hooker? Blaxill’s excuse for not mentioning vaccines in his testimony was that he pulled a few punches to ensure another hearing was in the works, yet Issa had already committed to holding multiple hearings. And now Issa won’t hold the scheduled Dec. 4th hearing thanks to the topic Canary Party requested of Congress.

Rather than paving the way for a second congressional hearing, Mark Blaxill prevented a second congressional hearing altogether. At the first hearing, he told me:

“I don’t have a whole lot of hope.”

Blaxill’s prediction was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For relevant posts on this sad saga, see below links beginning with most recent:

Age of Autism Deletes Canary Party Briefing Video

Mark Blaxill Defended Thimerosal With Fraudulent Danish Research

Mark Blaxill Admits COI When His Undermining Began

Listen to Jake Crosby on Linderman Unleashed

Mark Blaxill’s Early Interference in Autism Omnibus Revealed

Canary Party VP: “your judgement is compromised on this because of your autism”

How Dan Olmsted and David Kirby Helped Kill Landmark Autism Lawsuit

No More Federal Research Fraud – OPPOSE HR1757!

Age of Autism Condemned For Banishing Autism Investigated’s Editor

Mark Blaxill Publicly Attacks Critics

Outbound Links to other relevant articles:

SafeMinds Ignores Major Allegations While Replying Dishonestly to Other Charges – Age of Autism

SafeMinds Steals the Show, Literally… – Bolen Report

Jake Crosby is editor of Autism Investigated and is diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder. He is a 2011 graduate of Brandeis University with a Bachelor of Arts in both History and Health: Science, Society and Policy and a 2013 graduate of The George Washington University School of Public Health and Health Services with a Master of Public Health in Epidemiology. He currently attends the University of Texas School of Public Health where he is studying for a Ph.D. in Epidemiology.

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98 Thoughts on “NVICP Congressional Hearing Cancelled

  1. White Rose on November 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm said:

    Outrage …… AoA is to blame .

  2. Thank you Jake for keeping us informed… What a mess this whole thing has become!

  3. White Rose on November 20, 2013 at 4:13 pm said:

    Ginger – are you going to join us with an explanation ? Dan Burns ? Anyone ? Mark Blaxill ?

  4. If this is true, then I hope to God there is a Congressional Hearing on CDC malfeasance. Somebody needs to be doing something about this unchecked increase in autism.

  5. Dan Olmsted on November 20, 2013 at 5:17 pm said:

    As we stated the issues with Rolf’s video were strictly technical in nature. They were not “excuses” or “claims” and had nothing to do with the post itself, any comments to it, or the hearing. Suggesting otherwise has no basis in fact. Just want to make sure you hear that from me personally.

    • Thank you for your comment, Dan. If the issues with Rolf’s video had nothing to do with the post or comments, then that would not explain why the entire post along with 40 comments were taken down in the first place. Also, the technical excuses cited were completely scrubbed after the video was re-embedded. So as far as anyone seeing the post now for the first time would be concerned, the post was never taken down to begin with. Given the circumstances, I cannot take your word for why the video was taken down.

      As for the hearing, are you going to tell your readers that it was cancelled yet? I think it’s about time they know.

  6. I thought vaccines were cleared as far as autism goes?

    • Yep. Even over ten years after the Wakefield article there any attempt to link vaccination and Autism has failed. Hopefully more time and money will go into actual autism research now.

      • The UK Department of Health’s “attempt” doesn’t count; otherwise it would have never tried to shut down Wakefield’s research in the first place to avoid being sued. Neither does Poul Thorsen’s fraudulent “research,” which along with that of UKDoH are pretty much all America’s undeservedly prestigious “Institute of Medicine” bases its “scientific consensus” that vaccines don’t cause autism on.

  7. Dan Olmsted on November 20, 2013 at 8:43 pm said:

    Jake aren’t you just speculating and trying to gussy it up as fact? Seems to me you take small bits of info, like that we took the “entire” post down, and impute more significance to it than it can really bear. (Uh, we took it down because we didn’t know what was wrong and were trying to fix it?) Then you take some other facts like that, weigh them down with similar false import, and stir up a witches brew of alleged bad behavior on our part, and connect it all to the canary party and mark Blaxill. Huh? The stupid video didn’t work! The rest is your speculation, which in this case simply happens to be flatly wrong and can’t withstand scrutiny.

    • No, I’m reporting it as I see it – figuring out what was wrong with the video and trying to fix it doesn’t explain why the whole post and 40 reader comments disappeared along with it. You also never addressed the fact that technical excuses were scrubbed from your site after the video went back up.

      • dan olmsted on November 20, 2013 at 10:48 pm said:

        Jake, since you won’t take my word for it, what would convince you that it was a technical issue and had nothing to do with any other matters?

        • I’ve already told you twice in the comments why I’m not convinced; I’m not going to rephrase it for you.

        • what would convince you that it was a technical issue and had nothing to do with any other matters?

          Speaking as, you know, the actual person who observed the nondeletion, I’d suggest that detailing the “technical issue” rather than simply using the term as a mantra might be one approach.

          • Can I second that please :)

            Alain

          • I see that the explanation has finally arrived at AoA. Assuming arguendo that it was screwing up the front page, which is no fault of the video itself but how it was embedded (and perhaps Alain will return to note how long it took to simply re-upload it to YouTube) and/or some screwball CSS or PHP behind the scenes, the “technical” explanation is as follows:

            We couldn’t embed the video, so we just disappeared the whole post instead.

            The original, working link to the streaming version, again, was always sitting right where it started.

    • Hey Dan, I asked you over five years ago why you supported Kathleen Seidel and her character assassination of Mark Geier. Are you ever going to be man enough to give me an answer?

      • We can conclude from this that Dan Olmsted must have been hired to work with Kathleen Seidel as a psychological warfare agent to lead parents away from any useful action to take down corruption and help children. Why else would Dan refuse to answers questions about his support for the most despicable liar who ever infested the autism community? An honest person would have answered me.

        • We can’t conclude that based on information we don’t have, John, but I do find it hard to believe that David Gorski was the only influence behind Olmsted’s support of Seidel. He certainly wasn’t honest to me when we first met nearly five years ago in which he said you wanted to “shoot” him even though he was a “good guy” without telling me why you were critical of him. Just last night on Facebook I asked Olmsted if he was going to respond to you in the comments here regarding his support for Seidel, after he accused me of alleging that him, David Kirby, Mark Blaxill and others are part of the autism cover-up. Olmsted’s response to me was, “Jake, try to stay on topic. The topic is your false paranoid speculation masquerading as fact.” He really doesn’t want to respond to you.

    • @Dan – I think you are being a bit disingenuous here….this is exactly the type of reporting that Jake does – it was perfectly okay when it was directed against individuals you didn’t like, but now it is inappropriate when directed by at AoA & yourself in particular?

      The irony is just delicious…..

    • Gee, Dan, the video worked just fine until it was shown that it could hurt the Polings.
      Now, it’s back, and “fixed.” You call it “issues embedding the video.” Wow. You guys are geniuses.
      Bottom line – you screwed up. You got caught. Now you’re trying to fix it and wave your hands like nothing ever happened. Doug Hennings would be proud of your “maaaaaaaaaagic.”
      Not a lot of people have fallen for this line of lies, and for you to think that we are all just a bunch of uneducated moronic parents is beyond insulting. How dare you.
      A of A and Canary Party – none of you advocate for MY child, and you most certainly do NOT speak for me.

      • Gee, Dan, the video worked just fine until it was shown that it could hurt the Polings.

        This isn’t entirely true. AoA was, for a while on the afternoon of November 12, barfing up an error from the Drive video player and offering the full file instead. Interpretation of this is left as an exercise for the reader.

  8. I was just telling a friend today after reading your article I remember watching an early Burton autism hearing and my son was young. He’s now weeks away from turning 18 and it feels like no progress has been made. I would not have believed all those years ago that we would still be spinning our wheels.

    After the 2008 Green our Vaccines rally, I thought the “leaders” would organize more rallies to grow our ranks and make our voices more powerful. The more time that goes by and the continued lack of progress made on the vaccine issue- and as more and more kids slip away into autism lends validity to your accusations Jake.

    Why can’t we get our lawmakers attention? So disappointed and sad for all the kids and families denied justice and vindication.

  9. sam hall on November 21, 2013 at 1:00 pm said:

    So I see AOA and canary party have finally announced that the hearings are cancelled…took a wee while to catch up. Did Dan bring a few buddies over here with him ?

    Thanks Jake for the accurate reporting and keeping us informed without obscuring the story to suit your purposes.

    • Age of Autism did it less than a half-hour after I told Dan Olmsted in the comments here that it’s about time he let his readers know. I would say no since Dan Olmsted is apparently the only supporter of Age of Autism/Canary Party who has commented on this thread.

      And it’s my pleasure.

  10. Hi, Jake and everyone else. I feel we will never have a true understanding of why this very important Congressional hearing was cancelled, as only Congressman Issa and others on that committee know the driving force or forces behind the decision to cancel it. There is one thing I am certain of, however, and that is that everyone involved (on the government side) in setting it up were put under enormous pressure by industry and their lobbyists to cancel the hearing. Industry wants this hearing to never happen. That pressure will never let up, either. I think that as many of us as possible need to write, and call, and actually meet with our elected Congressional representatives and demand that this hearing be placed back on schedule for a date certain. Only though a persistent, consistent, and deeply committed individual approach will our community gain the credibility as the impressively enormous group (and very large voting block) that it is in order to make this hearing happen.

    At the state level, I can tell you that it matters greatly to our elected officials that we show up regularly, in person, at our State Houses, and meet with them directly. Letters and phone calls are important, and they do have a positive effect, but actual face-to-face visits are by far the most effective in stopping or revising bad bills. In essence, we must become individual lobbyists, ourselves, whether we feel comfortable doing so or not, for the sake of our children, and the children of others. Rallies make for an attractive, attention grabbing show of solidarity, but the rally day comes and goes, and then our legislators forget they ever even happened. We will never get the media attention we deserve from a rally in the present climate. No industry owned media outlets would be permitted to give proper coverage to such a rally. All cameras would be pointed elsewhere – at the naked, twerking Miley Cyrus, or the sensational Kardashian family, or any other extraordinarily irrelevant famous person. I believe our power lies in our ability, in great numbers, to contact and directly engage our legislators.

    On that note, I guess I should prepare for and schedule a meeting with my Congressional representative to discuss my sadness and disappointment, as well as my outrage, at the cancellation of this important hearing.

  11. bad apple on November 21, 2013 at 9:41 pm said:

    I have to say that I don’t give a ^%#$# rat’s rear end about the rights of the Polings to privacy when it comes to their child’s medical records. I’ve been on for years about the rights of parents of vaccine injured children to sue for redress in the same way that everyone else can. But as the (federally subsidized) counselor told me “just because YOU care about something, that doesn’t mean that other people have to.”

    But anyway– and perhaps my memory is mistaken– didn’t the Polings say, when they were awarded all that money, that they WANTED to share their child’s medical records?

  12. The issue for the Poling family, if memory serves, is their concern that other members of their family have information contained within their daughter’s medical files and, as per this concern, they are simply NOT willing to release the entirety of those records.

    Perhaps other family members have voiced strong objections. And just as well is the issue with their now older daughter who is already quite aware she’s been made somewhat infamous because of her case. The emotional impact with just that one issue must be a fairly daunting one for Hannah’s family to contend with.

    We don’t know for certain that should these records be revealed in full would change any outcome re: the malfeasance with the vaccine court.

    Admittedly, I am not completely familiar with the issues surrounding the Polings’ case, but having been in the legal field for many years (litigation), things are not always as black and white as they seem.

  13. White Rose on November 21, 2013 at 11:58 pm said:

    Dan Olmsted – I have never had an answer to the simple question as to why Brian Hooker (Phd biochemical engineer) was edged out last time in favour of Mark Blaxill (non scientist parent)?

    Why would Mark Blaxill (a non scientist ) edge out the Geiers ?

    Why do people who are not autistic , or who do not have autistic children , or do not have autistic relatives involve themselves in these vaccine-autism campaigns ? If I wasn’t up to my eyeballs in the screaming and the excrement – I certainly wouldn’t be involved . So what is your story Dan ?

    AoA better start taking a long hard look at themselves – and start purging the problems within .
    Our movements are infiltrated , that is easy to see , and its being paid for by the Pharma – that all makes perfect sense to me . If you were poisoning babies (God its hard to believe anyone could stoop so low but they have) on an industrial IG Farben\Nazi scale as they clearly are , then a little bit of bribery and infiltration would be the least of your worries .

    As for the trolls who decided to make brief appearances earlier , remember keep all your vaccines for yourselves and your entire extended families fully up to date – we don’t know anything here on these pages . Vaccines are safe and really good for you , made with safe mercury , and never carcinogenic .
    Also remember we have the science now , we have the people , its all on our side , and my own personal opinion is we are not looking for compensation , we are looking for prosecutions for crimes against humanity (this for me is far bigger than the Nazi holocaust in WW2 – the numbers are far greater).
    Listen to the Hilleman recording for a kick off if you don’t believe me , the CDC’s own admission of SV40 contamination of 125M americans and that was 40 years ago .

  14. White Rose on November 22, 2013 at 1:23 am said:

    We don’t have the science they say , they say this all the time .

    I have a 290 page document in my hand right now …… it is just a list of documented peer reviewed studies of the damage that vaccines do (which means Edward Jenner was a C.Nut , pure and simple ) .

    5 research papers per page , meaning anywhere up to 1500 scientific papers saying vaccines are a crime against humanity . Vaccines are the missing weapons of mass destruction . I have found them GeorgeB.

    The only effin people on this whole planet who can refute this level of evidence are liars , thieves and scoundrels and in the UK , the BBC . Sorry perhaps I missed one , & Mark Blaxill . Despite his own daughters vaccine injury , he still says the case on vaccines is not proven one way or the other , you can ALL see this for yourselves on YouTube where he states this in front of another congress or other.

  15. White Rose: Some people involved in this movement may not have autistic children, or members within their own families of whom are autistic, but they still CARE. Our son was vaccine damaged. Long story short, we quit vaccinating him at the age of six months. But the damage was already incredible at that point. We went through a lot finding him help. We did, but it was a long, hard haul.

    He’s okay now and is doing well. But I DO care about the families who have been far more impacted with this issue than we were. My husband and I fully recognize our son could have become one of the statistics out there.

    It truly saddens me to see SO much human destruction, but yet, nothing has really pushed this issue in the right direction. I wish the autism community could find that one common ground and really work together in NUMBERS to get on with things. But that just hasn’t happened yet.

    I definitely understand Jake’s frustrations, but at the same time, I don’t feel going before those that are gatekeepers for this agenda is going to accomplish anything much whatsoever. My husband and I learned all too quickly that even at the lower levels of government (in our school district for example), how vastly corrupted it all is – from the top all the way to the bottom. The same goes as to the state level as well.

    The political/court SYSTEMS are corrupted, NOT just the individuals WITHIN those systems.

    There are higher interests of whom have enormous wealth and power within these systems and within our medical/healthcare systems as well. They have their own agendas; they are not our friends, they aren’t here to help/serve us.

    Even if those on Issa’s Committee care enough to want to help, I can guarantee you their hands will be tied, by the very corporate interests they are beholden to. It will not make one modicum of difference should EVERY ONE of those Congressional Committee members be removed. You can replace all those members with others and they, too, will be beholden to the corrupted SYSTEM.

    The system is broken.

    What to do? Don’t know really. Masses of people revolting would do it, perhaps. There just aren’t enough numbers at this point for that to be as effective as it could be.

  16. Jake, I see from Ginger’s FB page that she says: “Jake… I don’t know what else to say. You don’t seem to have realized that you have actually crossed the legal line and printed slander. You made things up and printed them as fact.”

    Haha. Slander is spoken. Libel is printed.

    But seriously, I wonder if Ginger does intend to take legal action. I hope that you will not back down and “disappear” your posts, as is the habit at Age of Autism.

    • Her threats are vacuous; I wouldn’t worry one bit.

    • Letthembegot on November 22, 2013 at 7:26 am said:

      What the hell does Ginger think she will achieve by attacking you on a nonsense claim.

      Great team work Ginger, remember the email….I really care about you Jake…….what a lot of nonsense. I wish you cared less a Jake and more about helping parents of vaccine injured autistic children seek justice. Get on and get the people together Ginger, bring them together all of them and lets march (March against Monsanto did it and they have far less collateral damage than we do).
      We need the numbers to be on message and marching together with the same aim. Its simple…………… keep your I care about you Jake rubbish and go condescend someone else.

      • Where’s Ginger? Where’s Dan? Where’s the truth?
        Does Kirby still think that autism is caused by mercury floating across the Pacific from China?
        How come Handley always forgets that mercury causes autism when he goes on TV?
        Has any other person on Earth had their Indigo child turn into an autistic child?
        Can anyone ask these questions on Age of Autism without having the question deleted?

  17. White Rose on November 22, 2013 at 5:57 pm said:

    Kim , the reason we don’t have the numbers at the moment , is because people just don’t believe it could be possible for the US UK governments to deliberately poison their own people . Just like the people of Germany didn’t believe their leaders could possibly murder them 1939 45 .
    And quite frankly I can barely believe it myself , but it’s true .The evidence is irrefutable .

    Very pleased so hear your success story however . we are all working very hard to recover our children’s health after the vaccine poisons.

  18. Hello White Rose,

    You said, “…is because people just don’t believe it could be possible for the US UK governments to deliberately poison their own people.”

    You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately. And just as what happened in Nazi Germany in 1939-45, people still didn’t want to BELIEVE. Some did and got the hell out just in the nick of time. The non-believers, not so lucky.

    My husband and I were just speaking about the above just the other day, Rose. We can see all of this happening – headed down this slippery slope we’re in – just like in Nazi Germany.

    People want to have FAITH; they want to have HOPE. And they should! BUT IN THEMSELVES and NOT in the ones who are serving their own selfish gains/needs within our corrupted political/healthcare systems.

    There is an ENORMOUS amount of POWER behind those corporate entities (and the individuals who run them) our government and its political hacks are beholden to. They may be small in number compared to the masses out there, but that small number of individuals have amassed an enormous amount of power and wealth in their day. They DON’T CARE about the rest of us.

    They. simply. don’t. care. Evil DOES exist. And they are evil.

    Most people just have a hard time wrapping their heads around that, but it’s the truth.

    The ONLY way this thing can be turned around is for all the so-called statistics (autism families) turned into BOOTS ON THE GROUND. But that’s a hard thing to accomplish, because these families have all been SO torn apart – financially, emotionally and physically.

    I wish I could come up with some better answers to all of this, but in the meantime I’ve been doing everything I can to enlighten newbie parents about the dangers of Big Pharma and its agenda. It DOES feel great to be able to help someone JUST with the knowledge re: the use of an exemption! I realize that’s not enough, but so far we’ve been able to keep every single solitary needle away from our son since he was six months of age. We’ve watched his health come back, slowly at first – with a whimper, then with a bang.

    My prayers are with the autism families, many of whom I’ve counted as friends throughout these past several years.

    I DO hope – and soon – that the feuding within your community ends and one common core/ground can be found. You guys need – desperately – to band TOGETHER and fight this thing for all you’re worth.

  19. Doug Troutman on November 23, 2013 at 12:27 am said:

    I always wondered why Blaxill, NAA and others either attacked the Geiers or wouldn’t invite them to their conferences. I remember Imus discussing Thimerasol and passing the Combat Autism Bill to help out the families. Imus always ask the question if everybody wanted to sue the big drug companies (like that would be really bad). The NAA used to be about mercury in the shots and when Mrs. Imus became a board member the message changed. They passed the Combating Autism Act and the mercury is still in the shots. Now there is proof the CDC is lying about the Thimerasol studies and Blaxill hijacks the hearing. Hooker and the Geiers are the right people to present the information not MB. I wonder if this information will ever be presented in the hearings.

  20. Letthembegot on November 23, 2013 at 1:25 pm said:

    Do you know Dan Olmsted why I cant really get behind AOA any longer ?

    Its not just the rather large question mark over Mark Blaxill, but it is totally beyond me why you Dan would publicly, or privately for that matter, be so incredibly unpleasant to one of our own. Your weekly wrap is pathetic – What about the week that was- not a word about the cancelled Hearing in your summing up…I thought that was fairly major news, an event of the week no ?

    Just more personal attacks and condescending rants about one of our own. I have been on all the boards and news sites and received the scathing attacks and been dealt that very insult – being called a conspiracy theorist to hear you hurl that at one of our own …………….hmm I cant really put it into words.

    You see Dan, Jake is one of our own of that there is no doubt.

    Are you one of our own Dan ?

    If indeed you are one of our own, will you speak clearly and plainly so that all may understand.
    Vaccines cause autism. Mercury in vaccines causes autism. There is no maybe or possibly in either statement. No confusion. That’s all anyone is looking for.

    And lets take the single message to those that either have the power to make change. Lets put our very best representatives forward those who can articulate the message loud and clear and those who are best qualified in science to present the facts. …… or lets take to the streets in our true numbers without being shepherded back to nonsense articles and messages telling us all to follow an individual or two or three who are full maybe’s …..

    If you are one of our own Dan, you are letting us down right now.

  21. Melissa R. Troutman on November 24, 2013 at 1:48 pm said:

    I wanted to “chime” in on this thread, and give MORE information regarding the “Science” of the safety of these “mandated” vaccines and what they actually have to offer! I’ve copied and pasted below from the words of a TRUE SCIENTIST who definitely knows what he’s talking about a “Q & A” and his responses to the “Q & A”! My hope is that everyone will click on the link and read the complete Response to the “Q & A” and learn even more than what they already do know regarding vaccines and their safety. So, without further delay here is the copy & pasted email:

    To ALL,

    Attached is my formal response the answers sourced to
    Dr. Frank DeStefanoto of the CDC in an article written
    by Kathleen Doheny, that was reviewed by Jennifer Shu,
    MD and posted in late October Of 2013 as a “WebMD Health
    News” item at
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/23/expert-qa-childhood-vaccine-safety/

    This response is titled, “A Formal Response to the Answers
    in ‘Expert Q&A: Childhood Vaccine Safety’”.

    This formal response deconstructs the unsupported assertions
    apparently sourced from Frank DeStefano, MD, MPH.

    My latest response addresses the “answers” in a WebMD
    article to questions about the “safety” of the current
    “childhood vaccination programs”.

    After some “introductory remarks”, these responses address
    “vaccination reality” as I currently understand it.

    The table of contents, see below, is provided so that each
    of you can start by reading that response that most
    interests you.

    In general, all of the responses except one, the response to
    “Can you give an example?”, are short.

    Hopefully, these answers will help you to better understand
    what the public is not being told about the lack of safety
    in the current vaccines and vaccination programs.

    For myself, as Diogenes who looked for honest men in the
    night with a lantern, I am still looking for vaccines that
    have been proven to be “safe” – one proven not to cause
    cancer, mutations and reproductive toxicity before it was
    given to any healthy child – and effective in preventing
    disease for not less than the child’s lifetime or 100 years
    — whichever is longer — as well as, for those vaccine that
    are truly effective, cost-effective for the vaccination of
    the entire population.

    After reading all or any one of these responses, you should
    understand that your choice is NOT between:
    • those childhood diseases for which we have a vaccine
    and
    • vaccination.

    To ensure the long-term health of our children, the real
    “choice” is between:
    • the parents’ “promised” freedom from having to deal
    with those acute childhood diseases that vaccination
    “prevents” with the risks of the collateral damage
    (death, permanent disability and diminished expecta-
    tions) to some children and
    • having to deal with the similar risks of collateral
    damage from our children’s having those childhood
    diseases and being protected from getting them again
    to minimize the risks for those chronic diseases that
    the current vaccination programs either “promote” or
    “cause”.

    Supposedly, we all currently have the right to make that
    choice.

    Hopefully, after reading this, you will understand what
    the choices are even if you do not read the responses
    themselves.

    Hopefully, all who read this response will verify the
    assertions made and then share this document and the
    links in this cover e-mail with everyone that they know
    who may benefit from reading this article or who may be
    looking for more information about the issues, which
    surround today’s vaccines and vaccination programs from
    the perspective of someone currently living in a
    “corporate” society, where clean water and sanitation
    are generally available and there is no civil war,
    widespread insurrection or other conflagration and food,
    clothing and shelter are still available.

    This review can also be downloaded from the Internet web
    site, http://dr-king.com. It is located at the bottom of
    the list of documents in the 2013 subsection of the
    “Publications(by year)” section of the “Documents” web
    page.

    Should any reader wish to take issue with any of the
    assertions made in this review, please adhere to the
    requirements for addressing the assertions with which
    the reader disagrees, which are specifically addressed
    in the footnote that is located on the initial page of
    a review or formal response.

    Respectfully,

    Paul G. King, PhD
    http://www.dr-king.com

    PS: Should you need a copy of the “.doc” file
    from which the attached “pdf” file was created,
    then simply send me an email with “AFR_A_EQ&A”
    in the title and the reason for needing the
    copy in the text of the e-mail.

    Also,
    the direct link to this file is:
    http://dr-king.com/docs/131122_FormlRespnsTo_ExpertQ_A_ChildhoodVaccineSafety_fnl_b.pdf

    Table of Contents

    Introductory Remarks 1
    Yes, there are serious post-vaccination adverse
    reactions, which are also “dangerous side effects” 2
    Post-vaccination-associated serious “adverse events”
    are“ the same as a dangerous reaction” to a vaccine 6
    A misleading response to “Can you give an example?”
    that ignores the concept of logical connection
    and the factual record 8
    CDC handling of a post-vaccination “serious side
    effect” reports:
    A beautiful story concealing an ugly reality 16
    Scientific evidence? 18
    “[V]accines cause autism” 20
    Yes, it is “dangerous for kids to be getting so
    many vaccines at once” 23
    No proof that “the combination vaccines” are “safe” 25
    Separate M-M-R® II and Varivax® injections?
    Strongly recommended! 28
    Recognizing “bad reactions” 31
    The precautionary principle:
    Wait, do not vaccinate sick kids 32
    Vaccinating medicated children 33
    Vaccinating children with compromised immune systems 34
    Dr. King’s concluding remarks 35
    Acknowledgements 35
    About the presumed author of the answers,
    Frank DeStefano, MD, MPH 36
    About the responder, Paul G. King, PhD 36
    Appendix A — Copy of submitted abstract,
    “Increased risk of developmental neurologic
    impairment after high exposure to thimerosal-…” A1
    Appendix B — Annotated excerpts from ACIP meeting
    on 27-28 October 2010,
    “Influenza Vaccine” B1
    Appendix C — Overview of fetal-loss reports in VAERS
    — Aug. 2006-June 2013 C1

  22. You know it strikes me that in a two party system, it would just take one party to act responsibly and fairly on this issue and there are so many children/families affected by autism that that is a huge amount of voting power. The failed Congressional Hearing on NVICP practice is maybe a wake-up call for one of those parties to act.

  23. White Rose on December 1, 2013 at 6:54 pm said:

    Mark Blaxil , Dan Olmsted or whoever ……over at AoA
    Can you give us some opinion about the Rockefeller para typhus epidemic of 1918 ?

    tell us all about the Spanish flu ?

    Millions dead …..20m….50m. What caused it ? Why would smthg that virulent ever stop ?

  24. @White Rose – even Jake would tell you that diseases are cyclical….the Spanish Flu burned through the population, infecting huge numbers of people – leaving a relatively immune population in its wake….some research has shown that their might have been two separate strains, a milder strain first that was then followed by a much more infectious and dangerous strain that was the real killer.

    Frozen tissue samples from the era have given us a better idea of exactly what that flu looked like – coupled with the world socio-economic situation (the end of WWI & mass deployment of troops and malnurished populations), it is not surprising that the situation was ripe for a really bad disease outbreak.

    “The Great Influenza” is a great historical take on the disease and the times. I would heartily recommend it.

  25. White Rose on December 3, 2013 at 9:21 am said:

    Thank you Larry , I am looking for some decent material on the subject .
    Is it true there was a rushed name change ? Para Typhus being the original name ?
    How did it ever get the name “Spanish Flu” ?

  26. Most people had no idea what to call it – since medical science was in its infancy (the book, “The Great Influenza” talks about the birth of the AMA & the very recent – historically – licensing of doctors and the development of basic understandings of disease).

    You have to imagine, that modern science, up to that point, had never faced something that was so virulent – resulting in the death of so many healthy people, in so many places.

    It was named “Spanish Flu” because it was thought the original strain came from Spain – although today it is a safe bet that it came from Asia (where the majority of current flu strains originate). Because it killed so quickly and was so widespread, no one really had any idea what they were dealing with – again, read the book, as it details a lot of what was done in an attempt to contain it (because at that point, there was no way to control it with vaccines).

    I would also recommend “Spillover” a new book that talks about the spread of animal-borne diseases to humans (like Ebola, SARS or HIV – not to mention a couple of dozen other contagions that have begun to spread from animals to humans) – it seems that bats are the next source of these diseases – and they may also be the carrier of Ebola as well (though that has yet to be confirmed).

    One really scary piece to consider is that, in their limited transmission to humans, these diseases are incredibly fatal – with mortality rates as high as 90%, as we would expect to see from diseases that aren’t native to humans & haven’t evolved to a less harmful strain (evolution works to keep diseases at a level that allows them to spread & not be so fatal as to be evolutionary dead-ends).

    SARS killed as many as 60% of the people who caught it – and there were numerous “super-carriers” which were individuals that were more likely to spread the disease to more people in a given environment.

    The study of these diseases is very vital science – because it is only a matter of time before one of them evolves into a strain that is both easily spread, virulent, and with a high mortality rate…..

  27. Paratyphus is also caused by a bacterium, whereas the Influenza of 1918 was caused by a virus….again, the very immature state of medical science at the time made it extremely difficult to identify the pathogen – unlike what we would be able to accomplish today.

  28. White Rose on December 4, 2013 at 11:02 am said:

    Larry what do you think of this eye witness account :
    I WAS AN ON-THE-SPOT OBSERVER OF THE 1918 INFLUENZA EPIDEMIC

    All the doctors and people who were living at the time of the 1918 Spanish Influenza epidemic say it was the most terrible disease the world has ever had. Strong men, hale and hearty, one day would be dead the next. The disease had the characteristics of the black death added to typhoid, diphtheria, pneumonia, smallpox, paralysis and all the diseases the people had been vaccinated with immediately following World War 1. Practically the entire population had been injected “seeded” with a dozen or more diseases — or toxic serums. When all those doctor-made diseases started breaking out all at once it was tragic.

    That pandemic dragged on for two years, kept alive with the addition of more poison drugs administered by the doctors who tried to suppress the symptoms. As far as I could find out, the flu hit only the vaccinated. Those who had refused the shots escaped the flu. My family had refused all the vaccinations so we remained well all the time. We knew from the health teachings of Graham, Trail, Tilden and others, that people cannot contaminate the body with poisons without causing disease.

    When the flu was at its peak, all the stores were closed as well as the schools, businesses — even the hospital, as the doctors and nurses had been vaccinated too and were down with the flu. No one was on the streets. It was like a ghost town. We seemed to be the only family which didn’t get the flu; so my parents went from house to house doing what they could to look after the sick, as it was impossible to get a doctor then. If it were possible for germs, bacteria, virus, or bacilli to cause disease, they had plenty of opportunity to attack my parents when they were spending many hours a day in the sick rooms. But they didn’t get the flu and they didn’t bring any germs home to attack us children and cause anything. None of our family had the flu — not even a sniffle— and it was in the winter with deep snow on the ground.

    When I see people cringe when someone near them sneezes or coughs, I wonder how long it will take them to find out that they can’t catch it — whatever it is. The only way they can get a disease is to develop it themselves by wrong eating, drinking, smoking or doing some other things which cause internal poisoning and lowered vitality. All diseases are preventable and most of them are cureable with the right methods, not known to medical doctors, and not all drugless doctors know them either.

    It has been said that the 1918 flu epidemic killed 20,000,000 people throughout the world. But, actually, the doctors killed them with their crude and deadly treatments and drugs. This is a harsh accusation but it is nevertheless true, judging by the success of the drugless doctors in comparison with that of the medical doctors.

    While the medical men and medical hospitals were losing 33% of their flu cases, the non-medical hospitals such as BATTLE CREEK, KELLOGG and MACFADDEN’S HEALTH-RESTORIUM were getting almost 100% healings with their water cure, baths, enemas, etc., fasting and certain other simple healing methods, followed by carefully worked out diets of natural foods. One health doctor didn’t lose a patient in eight years. The very successful health treatment of one of those drugless doctors who didn’t lose any patients will be given in the other part of this book, titled VACCINATION CONDEMNED, to be published a little later.

    If the medical doctors had been as advanced as the drugless doctors, there would not have been those 20 million deaths from the medical flu treatment.

    There was seven times more disease among the vaccinated soldiers than among the unvaccinated civilians, and the diseases were those they had been vaccinated against. One soldier who had returned from overseas in 1912 told me that the army hospitals were filled with cases of infantile paralysis and he wondered why grown men should have an infant disease. Now, we know that paralysis is a common after-effect of vaccine poisoning. Those at home didn’t get the paralysis until after the world-wide vaccination campaign in 1918

    • Thank you White Rose, for bringing some truth and reality into this exchange.

      The following three paragraphs are taken directly from the writings of a naturopathic doctor named Eleanora McBean:

      “….. I heard that seven men dropped dead in a doctor’s office after being vaccinated. This was in an army camp, so I wrote to the Government for verification. They sent me the report of U.S. Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson. The report not only verified the report of the seven who dropped dead from the vaccines, but it stated that there had been 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of the yellow fever vaccine during only 6 months of the war. That was only one of the 14 to 25 shots given the soldiers. We can imagine the damage that all these shots did to the men. (See the chapter on What Vaccinations Did to Our Soldiers.)

      The first World War was of a short duration, so the vaccine makers were unable to use up all their vaccines. As they were (and still are) in business for profit, they decided to sell it to the rest of the population. So they drummed up the largest vaccination campaign in U.S. history. There were no epidemics to justify it so they used other tricks. Their propaganda claimed the soldiers were coming home from foreign countries with all kinds of diseases and that everyone must have all the shots on the market.

      The people believed them because, first of all, they wanted to believe their doctors, and second, the returning soldiers certainly had been sick. They didn’t know it was from doctor-made vaccine diseases, as the army doctors don’t tell them things like that. Many of the returned soldiers were disabled for life by these drug-induced diseases. Many were insane from postvaccinal encephalitis, but the doctors called it shell shock, even though many had never left American soil….”

      Although this account is from a time nearly a 100 years ago, I am truly disturbed by how familiar it all feels.

      • @Barry – given that there was no “Influenza” vaccine until the 1930s, I find your reply to be highly suspect. As to WWI being of “short duration” it involved tens of millions of soldiers and lasted for 4 years – the largest conflict that man had ever seen up to that point, not to mention the most costly (both in terms of lives lost and property destroyed).

        Since it is very easy to go back to the historical records to get good estimates on the total number of deaths – including the almost depopulation of several Pacific island communities, again, I find your post to be highly suspect.

        And finally, given the state of Medical Science at the time (there were no electron microscopes, antibiotics, nor real means to identify pathogen types or differentiate fully between viruses and bacterial diseases) there was no way for a company or multiple companies, researchers, etc. to do much of anything….you are taking your biases from today & applying them to a situation which occurred more than 90 years ago – which, given the advances in technology, might as well have taken place 500 years ago.

        There was no “mass-vaccination” program in place, because there wasn’t a vaccine to use….especially not in the dozens of other countries that were directly affected by the epidemic & never had a medical professional set foot on the ground (like those islands in the Pacific, for example).

        I would heartily recommend you read “The Great Influenza” to get some real perspective on the Epidemic.

        • My reply was three paragraphs taken from an account that written in 1976 by Eleanora McBean. I don’t care if you believe it not Larry. And if by “suspect” you mean that i believe her account over yours , then hey ,I guess I’m guilty as charred.

          Not sure what your story is , but my child was damaged by vaccines when he was less than 2 years old. And the reason that happened right under my nose, was that I believed doctors when they lied and told me that vaccines are safe and effective. Both of which I now recognize as complete and utter falsehoods.

          As for your rant about the influenza vaccine, save yourself some keystrokes ,and stop wasting your time and mine. As the old saying goes ” Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”.

          • @Barry – I was merely pointing out that those “three paragraphs” are full of historical inaccuracies, to the point of being outright lies.

            I would think that you would want as truthful information as possible – and when your sources cannot even get simple facts correct, such as the dates at which certain vaccines were available – then those sources are very suspect, even at face value (and turn out to be completely worthless when you dig deeper).

            Are you saying that Influenza Vaccines were available in 1918? Even though the first Influenza Vaccine wasn’t available until 15 years later?

            I’m not here to argue about whatever your current situation is – I’m merely pointing out that your source is incredibly inaccurate based on actual historical facts.

            • Nowhere in those three paragraphs is the influenza vaccine even mentioned.

              This site is about AUTISM Larry. And autism is all about the devastating health outcomes of children who received way too many vaccines , way too early in life. And about the medical community’s attempts to either deny that damage outright, or to try and rename is as something else.

              I’ll never know for sure if Eleanora McBean was telling the truth, but I struggle to find even a single reason why she would have been lying. And what I do know for sure, is that her account of history bears a lot more relevance on my sons health problems than yours does.

      • I would also point out that Henry Stimpson was Secretary of War from 1911 to 1913, before WWI, so the information provide above is incorrect (as it would not have been available from a war that hadn’t even been fought yet).

        Also, there was no “Yellow Fever” vaccine at the time (so it wasn’t given to US Soldiers) – so that is another piece of incorrect information.

        The history of the Yellow Fever vaccine can be found here:

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892770/

        There was issues with the Yellow Fever Vaccine used during WWII – which is perhaps what is being referenced above – but it isn’t about the Influenza Pandemic nor is it related to WWI.

        I know that accuracy is paramount in this discussions, so I hope this helps.

    • Rebecca Fisher on December 5, 2013 at 9:04 am said:

      It’s nonsense. There wasn’t a flu vaccine developed until (IIRC) the 1930s.

    • @White Rose – please cite what “vaccines” were available in 1918…because the Influenza Vaccine (or the Yellow Fever Vaccine Barry mentioned) weren’t.

  29. I do find it interesting that those “historical accounts” don’t include updated research that shows that the Influenza Virus was particularly good at causing the immune system to overreact – which is why particularly healthy individuals were the most likely to die of either the flu itself or the numerous complications that resulted from it.

    Also, those “naturopathic” accounts have been shown to be uniformly false upon follow-up research today. Given that an actual “Influenza” vaccine wasn’t available until the 1930′s, I also doubt the veracity of those claims just at face-value.

    Given that modern medical science was in its infancy – there is no doubt that, at the time, there was a lot of confusion (and quite frankly, inability) to deal with a pathogen that was so virulent – especially when you had a means of increased transmission (i.e. shipboard commerce) that could spread the disease faster than the word could get out on methods to try to control the spread of the disease.

    Blaming doctors – when the vast majority of those that died had no access to any medical care whatsoever – like those in India, China, the Pacific Islands, etc. really just avoids the point that this particular Flu Strain (of which we now have samples & have genetically investigated) was really, really bad & occurred at a time in our history where our understanding of disease was still in its infancy and our ability to treat it was even less mature…..

    Again, I would recommend reading Dave Barry’s “The Great Influenza” for a full historical investigation into the time, the birth of modern medical science, and the real toll that this disease took on the world population as a whole.

  30. Yes, I don’t believe the first flu vaccine was around until perhaps 1944? Or thereabouts? Just bought a copy of “The Great Influenza.” Can’t wait to read it.

    • @Kim – most of what we would consider to be “modern vaccine research” didn’t get going until the 1930′s when the technology became available to understand the pathogens (and differentiate between bacteria & virus)….not to say that it wasn’t a rough road (as the Yellow Fever vaccine serum issues that occurred during WWII demonstrate).

      Actually, given the state of medical science at the time, I think the researchers did a pretty good job.

      You’ll enjoy the book – and I would also recommend picking up a copy of “Spillover” by David Qaummen – which details the danger of new animal diseases crossing over into the human population (HIV being the one everyone knows about – but also includes SARS & others new plagues that are only now making themselves known).

      A couple of items revealed about the history of HIV is that there are actually numerous sub-groups of the virus (which I was unaware) with different genetic histories. Further research into the virus genome show that the virus itself made the jump over to humans in the 1930s – but it took a couple of decades for it to make its presence known more widely, before becoming the Pandemic we know today.

      Really interesting stuff, particularly around being able to date disease spill-over by comparisons in mutations between the animal hosts and infected humans.

  31. White Rose on December 6, 2013 at 10:31 am said:

    Can I recommend Larry , that you read a 1920′s publication by Chas Higgins “The Horrors of vaccination” .
    Mr Higgins wrote it as a direct appeal to the US president to stop vaccinating and maiming the US troops .

    The US joined WW1 in 1917 and based themselves in Spain , some people contend it was amongst these vaccinated troops in Spain that Para-Typhus first broke out , and the name was simply changed to cover the tracks back to the vaccines , to the name “Spanish Flu” .

    I wasnt there , I cannot verify any of these facts for sure . But I am open minded .

    Larry also please make sure you listen to the Maurice Hilleman recording (all over the net) to hear the voice of both modern medicine and science admitting the holocaust they have caused .

    • @White Rose – Spain was officially Neutral (staunchly so) during the First World War. They would not have (and did not) allow foreign troops on to their territory during the war.

      Although the disease was originally thought to originate in Spain, subsequent research showed that the disease most like originated in Asia & was also found early on in Kansas (here in the US) – and spread in three waves, first a mild diseases, followed by the two subsequent waves (probably through mutation) that were much more deadly and virulent than the original strain.

      The Spanish Flu was a true “Swine Flu” that infected pigs to the same degree as people – and has been genetically linked to H1N1 though today a similar outbreak like the 1918-1919 Pandemic could be treated with current anti-viral medications (and we could deal with the side effects much easier).

      Although I understand that your sources are saying one thing (which, seems to be based on a bunch of incorrect historical information) – modern science has allowed us to have a much better understanding of the original disease & historical documentation and thorough research has helped track the true progression of the Pandemic as well.

      Again, “The Great Influenza” is a fantastic resource and should set the record straight for you.

  32. Letthembegot on December 6, 2013 at 2:08 pm said:

    There seems to be a fair amount of historical evidence which suggests that the so called Spanish Flu may indeed have been connected to vaccination.

    “THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,” July 28, 1917 (Vol. 69, p. 267) under the heading “Vaccination in War, “states:

    “Bernard and Paref, in an analytic study, reported in 1915 a great preponderance of paratyphoid infection in the anti-typhoid vaccinated over those in the non-vaccinated, presenting the remarkable figures shown in Table 2.

    “Table 2: Preponderance of Paratyphoid Infections over Typhoid
    Cases Vaccinated Non-Vaccinated
    Typhoid (Eberth Bacifius) 77 45 32
    Paratyphoid 248 222 26
    According to General Goodwin, the British Army had 7,423 cases of typhoid, with 266 deaths, up to 1918. Compulsory vaccination was in force in the British Army at that time.

    In the book MEDICAL VOODOO by A.R. Hale, the author states on page 185: “In World War I, in the French Army alone, there were 113,165 cases of typhoid with 12,380 deaths up to Oct. 1916. Anti-typhoid inoculations were made compulsory in the French Army in March, 1918.”

  33. Letthembegot on December 6, 2013 at 2:11 pm said:

    My previous comment did not hold its format, apologies.

    However if you find a descriptive account of the symptoms (which I have done in Asprin the Wonder Drug) of the so called Spanish flu (which I have done in Asprin the Wonder Drug) you will see that they sound mighty strange ….unlike any influenza symptoms I have ever seen or heard of.

    • Actually, the symptoms of the “Spanish Flu” were different than the more mild varieties of Influenza that medical professionals had seen up to that point. A lot of what they were seeing was a result of the massive over-response of the human immune system to the new strain of flu – so in a sense, the flu had caused the body to kill itself, in its attempts to fight off the infection.

      Again, I would love to see a list of “vaccines” that were commonly available to the general public in 1918….because I don’t think they are what you think they are…..

  34. White Rose on December 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm said:

    No one is saying there was a flu vaccine in 1918 , no one on here ever says that . What some people have alleged is that name Spanish flu was cover up name for vaccine damage . Para typhus .

  35. Farmer Geddon on December 7, 2013 at 9:19 pm said:

    The first World war saw the first widespread use of vaccinations in military personnel (a practice that has continued ever since – with, or without consent). Almost all of the “allied” countries submitted their armies to this particular atrocity, with few exceptions. One such exception was Greece, which refused to have it’s soldiers “vaccinated”. This may have earned it the wrath of the other “allies”, but it also earned Greece a rather enviable reputation – virtually the ONLY country in Europe to avoid the “Spanish Flu” pandemic.

  36. @FG – please cite your sources for that, since the “Spanish Flu” was particularly deadly in areas of the world where there was no “modern medical care” like India & China (not to mention the Pacific Islands)….and to say that the nation of Greece was immune – again, please cite your sources for that particular bit of historical information.

    @White Rose – since we can now genetically identify the “Spanish Flu” as a derivative of the H1N1 Swine Flu, I would say that your assertion is incorrect. How do you reconcile your idea of “vaccine damage” when the vast majority of individuals – civilians especially, had never had anything other than the Smallpox vaccine?

    How do you also account for the large death tolls in places like China & India (and isolated Pacific Islands – infected by ship) that never had access to modern medical care?

    Historical research is your friend – again, “The Great Influenza” is probably the best resource for the actual story of the disease – and not a conspiracy theory.

  37. @White Rose – here is an interesting study in European mortality rates from Spain:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20167048

  38. Letthembegot on December 8, 2013 at 10:50 am said:

    Larry,

    I have read numerous both historical and government official accounts of the spanish flu. What is most interesting is the variance in the actual numbers of deaths. Somewhere between 10 million and 50 million. So to respond to your point about China and India, can you provide verifiable statistics for those places…the answer will be no because no-one can. That alone undermines the point you tried to make.

    I have read government records and accounts of forced vaccination of military in 1911,12,13,14,15,16 and beyond for Cholera and Typhoid and others. A simple google search Larry will provide all you need to know. There are a multitude of sources out there.

    “The full history of typhoid vaccination in the Army is a long one1 and need not be recounted here. It is sufficient to state that the regular administration of typhoid vaccine to all Army personnel had been routine since 1911 so that at the beginning of World War II, this practice was almost an Army tradition”

    From: US Army medical department

    Also From US Army Medical Department, They recorded adverse reactions from Smallpox vaccines, including Fatalities. They look like they actually did a better job of recording adverse reactions than the medics do today !

    So you see there was a lot of vaccination going on and many bad reactions but the accumulative effect of shoddy science, multiple vaccinations, malnutrition and no sanitation meant those poor soldiers had probably no ability to fight the the toxic load and poisoning which surely did occur……..and if you research carefully the facts are recorded for us too.

  39. @Letthem – there may have been vaccinations for the US Army, but I see no evidence (as has been asserted by White Rose) that those vaccines were made available to the general public.

    As for global mortality rates:

    http://www.influenzavirusnet.com/1918-flu-pandemic/mortality.html

    http://www.birdflubook.org/resources/NIALL105.pdf

    And the rate of adverse reactions to the Smallpox vaccine are very well known – and yes, death was a side-effect of that vaccine – but the mortality rate of Smallpox ranged from 35 – 99.5% which meant that even the small chance of death related to the vaccine was worth it.

    Of course, it isn’t something we have to worry about now, since Smallpox has been eradicated & routine vaccination was ended decades ago.

    When you embrace conspiracy theories, you lose sight of the actual evidence – which, as you say, is out there – you just have to read it (the information posted above is a good start).

  40. White Rose on December 8, 2013 at 8:08 pm said:

    Larry here is a conspiracy theory that the CDC has confirmed on its own website , that the polio vaccine was contaminated with the carcinogen sv40 , and 125m Americans were poisoned with it by vaccine .

    It is no wonder that cancer is so pervasive & prolific !

  41. Letthembegot on December 8, 2013 at 9:17 pm said:

    For Larry

    vaccination of school kids 1912/13
    http://www.jstor.org/stable/4569921

    Hell of a lot of opposition to vaccination in early 1900′s if no-one was getting them.
    http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/Science%20in%20a%20Democracy%20Colgrove.pdf

    No confidence in vaccines or government regulation of them – this is old news
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/SENATE-HEARING-S3419+1972.pdf

    No conspiracy……….just history.

  42. @White Rose – besides the Smallpox vaccine (which we all know had very well documented side-effects – but those side effects were still better than the 35 – 99.5% mortality rates of Smallpox infections), which routine vaccinations were given to civilians in 1918 – 1922?

  43. @Letthem – as noted, Smallpox was the only routine vaccination given during this time – and because of the extremely high mortality rates of Smallpox (35 – 99.5%, depending on the strain) this vaccine was certainly worth the relative risks.

    As to opposition to vaccinations – the original knock against the Smallpox vaccine (which was derived from Cow Pox) was that it would turn people into Cows…..people back then weren’t very well informed on Science.

  44. Rebecca Fisher on December 9, 2013 at 12:04 pm said:

    @LetThemBeGot:

    Your links that are relevant to the early 20th Century (the first two) refer to smallpox vaccination.

    As Larry has asked, What other vaccines were routinely given to civilians in 1918 – 1922?

    Kind regards,

    Becky

  45. Larry – We now know, due to recent research, that it is possible for vaccine recipients to “shed” vaccine germs for a few weeks after being vaccinated. Obviously it has never been a requirement to quarantine people or animals after vaccination. Does the book you recommend discuss this? Wouldn’t that be a relevant hypothesis within which to to re-examine disease patterns of the first half of the 20th century? We also now know, that bacteria can trade DNA within the human body. So results in a controlled lab experiment are not a reflection of the diverse conditions under which vaccine ingredients, deliberately included in the product or not, will react in each individual, and then be potentially transferred to the general public, resulting in novel combinations, and so on and so on and so on . . .

    • @Jenny – “shedding” has been more a theory than actually shown in reality. Given that most vaccines do not consist of “live virus” and even the ones that do, are not “whole virus” it is impossible for a vaccinated individual to “infect” anyone else with a full-blown disease.

      If such “novel” combinations were happening on a regular basis, we’d know about it – DNA recombination is difficult to achieve in pristine lab environments – and just doesn’t happen in the field in the way you suggest.

      Again, as to “disease patterns” in the early 20th Century (the timeframe we are discussing) – the Smallpox vaccine was the only vaccine that was in widespread use…..so, to relate to any other vaccine (the majority of which came into being and use from the 1930s onward – with the real uptick in vaccination programs not really occurring until the 1960s), its relevant to this discussion.

  46. Sherri Tenpenny’s done some terrific research regarding history of both the flu and smallpox vaccines…

  47. People afraid of turning into cows? I see, people at the time were smart enough to develop chemical weapons, submarines, and nuclear science, but dumb enough to think they would turn into cows. Or maybe this, if you have something in your blood that wasn’t there before, derived and run through animal tissue, would a person be more susceptible in the future to diseases that normally would only affect that animal.
    Hmm, check out the US Patent site for reasoning as so why new ways to create vaccines are being explored.

    Slightly more concerning than that would have been the immigrant population in the early decades of the 1900s was concerned that innoculation and vaccination was discriminatory toward them and that they had no choice but to take the shot and suffer the consequences or their children would not be allowed in school. Escaping from war zones, coming from other countries that that did not force children to be vaccinated just to obtain a public education, many of them considered the practice barbaric and totalitarian, and believed the Western doctors perceived their children to be “dirty” and “contagious.” The questioning of the necessity of innoculation and vaccination is rooted in the history of discrimination. The history of contagious disease and science evolves within the social fabric of society and cannot be separated from those roots, as much as lab scientists would like that to happen. Religion, color, cultural ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, immigration status, financial status, and now vaccination status, and access to information, and access to clean food & water. All just different ways to separate one group from another. What do they all have in common?

  48. @Kim – she isn’t exactly the type of researcher I would hold up as a paragon of truth – since she also believes that “magic water” is an effective treatment for rabies (i.e. homeopathy).

  49. @Larry: You’ve yet again shown your true colors with your extorts re: homeopathy. First, homeopathy is NOT ‘magic water.’ Two, homeopathy/Chinese medicine was what helped cure our son, when his own mainstream pediatrician admitted he didn’t know how to treat our son’s vaccine injuries. Same pediatrician REFERRED us to our now homeopathic practitioner; we’ve been with him, now, for over 22 years.

    Our now 20 year son’s health issues have improved so much with this homeopathic treatment, that his mainstream physician at Children’s Hospital/Oakland – who assessed our son when he was in school for learning issues, etc. – asked me WHAT we’d done for our son – because she could not believe the difference in him from the time she initially assessed him, to his last assessment, four years ago. The difference was just uncanny. Frankly, if we hadn’t seen the difference with our own eyes re: the ENORMOUS health benefits gleaned from homeopathic care, we wouldn’t have believed it ourselves.

    We used to completely believe in mainstream allopathic medicine, but life has a funny way of shifting gears on you when you least expect it, and in our own case, witnessing our son’s horrific vaccine reactions was the trigger point leading us down a path we’d never, ever expected to find ourselves on.

    Also, bear in mind that we VACCINATED OUR SON according to the AAP/CDC schedule, and I state this all the while knowing that we were NOT coerced into vaccinating our son at this time.

    We fired our first pediatrician because he would not work with us AS EQUALS in determining what healthcare options we were comfortable with, given both of our family’s histories with severe and/or life threatening allergies (hubby is extremely allergic to certain legumes and other foods, as am I).

    When our son started exhibiting a low-grade fever at just ONE WEEK OF AGE, coupled with severe jaundice and our pediatric staff (our first ped) openly stated they didn’t understand why our little guy was running a low grade fever, nor could they explain his other medical issues, we knew intuitively to change gears and find a pediatrician who would LISTEN to our concerns and not just brush them off.

    We interviewed our next pediatrician prior to hiring him and thus, were comfortable with the fact that they would work with us as a TEAM in caring for our son.

    When I decided to go ahead and start re-vaccinating our son, I made that decision with my husband. Unfortunately, that round of vaccines almost killed our son. Fortunately for us, our son’s pediatricians fully acknowledged our son’s vaccine reactions (they occurred immediately post vaccination). They gave our son a medical exemption, stating he could no longer have any more vaccines which contained the whole cell pertussis component, but when given the DT shot at six months of age, our son still lapsed into full and complete somnolence for two entire days/nights (indicates brain inflammation).

    Given our son had already suffered with, first, complete two day somnolence after his FOUR months shots, coupled thereafter with high-pitched screaming and high fever, we knew that even with JUST the somnolence issues after his six month round of shots, something was still dreadfully wrong post vaccination, with him.

    That’s when we quit vaccinating him. When I asked our pediatrician after this last vaccine reaction just what the hell had happened to our son, he literally told me that we could expect to see learning disorder issues, starting at the Kindergarten age.

    And we did.

    Our son was finally fully assessed by Dr. Carina Grandison of Children’s Oakland Hospital and found to have profound dysgraphia (one of the more profound cases she’d ever seen); severe higher order speech/language issues and a true inability to understand principles behind math concepts.

    Additionally, our son suffered with minor, but very noticeable OCD issues at just 2 years of age. He had extreme sensitivities to sunlight and suffered with other behavioral/medical issues.

    Today, thanks to the wonderful support of our homeopathic physician, Ryan is a completely normal young man in every respect. He is now attending college, earning a 3.4 GPA, has tons of friends, and is…well, normal in every way.

    Yet, had we continued him down the allopathic mode as we had, I shudder to think what may have happened to him. Most likely, he’d be autistic – on the higher end of the spectrum – or dead. And actually, those were the words of one of his ALLOPATHIC physicians, who fully admitted to Ryan’s vaccine reactions.

    Larry – Again, I don’t know who you are. I don’t know if you work with Big Pharma, or why your interest in trying to intimidate and/or otherwise state the absolute nonsense you post over here, but I actually feel a little bit sorry for you. Really.

    My husband and I VACCINATED our son; we complied with the AAP’s stance on the U.S. vaccination program and it almost TOOK OUR SON’S LIFE.

    My attorney husband and I, a former legal researcher, performed our own research in public, medical and university libraries re: vaccines. What we discovered written in peer-reviewed medical journals had NOT been disclosed to the general public, yet was known within mainstream medical communities re: the side effects and DEATHS attributed to vaccines. This shocked the hell out of us.

    We were completely and utterly naive at that time (1993). That saying, ‘you can’t unring a bell,’ pretty much sums up what we’ve been through with all of this. What we’ve learned throughout all these years on this subject, we cannot ‘unlearn.’

    It is what it is. We’ve NOT been told the truth about vaccines; they CAN harm you and in many cases, have caused the deaths of untold many, adults and children alike. Big Pharma is NOT an industry that has our best interests at heart. I didn’t used to believe this, but I’ve been literally forced to, after the research I’ve performed throughout these past several years.

    And further, I happen to know that this ‘researcher’ does NOT believe that magic water is effective for rabies treatment. That’s pure BS – and you know it.

    Instead of trying to refute what parents in the trenches who have witnessed first hand their baby’s cries and reactions post vaccination, why don’t you spend some real time in a library and do what my husband and I did for hours on end? That’d be a good start, Larry…

  50. Typo up above in my comment…meant 20 years, not 22 years…

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